Good Entry-level Real Gun Safe?

[shooter762]

I'm looking to spend a few thousand or so on a good gun safe w/fire
protection. Heres the basics, please let me know if any further info is
needed. I've done quite a bit of research on safe's now, so hopefully this
will get some good discussion going. I am open to all suggestions/pm's.

My install location will support 1-2 thousand pounds, I will secure the safe to concrete w/anchors. Plan on owning safe for a long time and will pay pro's to move it if/when the time comes. Don't have a lot to protect now, but also looking down the road many many years and don't want to have to get another safe later. Costs are only going to increase. Safe needs to have good fire protection, my house is not close to a hydrant
and rates a 9 on fire risk scale. 10 being the worst.
The safe needs to have 30-40 cubic feet of storage space for approx 40 rifles. I also need a recommendation on an insert designed for a UL 350 degree rated safe to protect important papers.

Questions:

Whats a great fireproofing material? Ceramic fiber insulation and/or glass
blanket? How much better is that compared to the gypsum sheetrock? Anything better?

I read that Sargent & Greenleaf's commercial combination box model number 6730 is the industry standard the others are judged by. Is this true?

Whats the best relocker type? Glass? I guess this varys depending on how the safe is constructed?

Whats the best type of hardplate? Diamond embedded?

Is it better to use shear pins and clutches inside the door to keep the door
from being brute forced open by the handle or build the mechanism soo strong that it can't be broken without serious tools?

How thick does the safe door have to be in order to make prying ineffective?
This would also relate to the number of door sides protected by locking
bolts.



I realize some of the above questions are dependant on each safe build type
and answers will vary quite a bit. Just trying to define some parameters a
good safe will fall into. I am not an expert in any shape or form on this
topic but very interested in learning as much as I can before making whats
going to be a big purchase, for me at least. Thanks in advance for any info!


Shooter762.

eta- I'm not too concerned if the safe is pretty or not, security is more important.

 

[RNB65]

Use the search function and look at threads on "gun safes" and "rsc". You'll find lots of good info on RSC's and safes. Also, there are two professional locksmiths who are regular THR posters. PM them directly for info on good safes.

 

[Essex County]

You don'y have to spend " a few thousand '

Shop carefully and send me what You have left over.........Essex

 

[a1abdj]

My install location will support 1-2 thousand pounds, I will secure the safe to concrete w/anchors. Plan on owning safe for a long time and will pay pro's to move it if/when the time comes. Don't have a lot to protect now, but also looking down the road many many years and don't want to have to get another safe later. Costs are only going to increase. Safe needs to have good fire protection, my house is not close to a hydrant
and rates a 9 on fire risk scale. 10 being the worst.

Assuming that the safe doesn't have to cross any fragile flooring or negotiate stairs, you can get a much heavier safe on a concrete floor.

Safes tend to be fire resistant or burglar resistant as a general rule of thumb. There are mixed breeds available, but the more the safe does, the more you should expect to pay.

The safe needs to have 30-40 cubic feet of storage space for approx 40 rifles. I also need a recommendation on an insert designed for a UL 350 degree rated safe to protect important papers.

Since the insert is going to be used within the safe, security isn't an issue. Sentry and the like make very good fire rated boxes and at very good prices.

Whats a great fireproofing material? Ceramic fiber insulation and/or glass blanket? How much better is that compared to the gypsum sheetrock? Anything better?

None of the above. Time and time again, the most effective fire insulation has proven to be gypsum composites with moisture content. These types of insulations start out as a liquid "concrete" and are injected under pressure into the hollow cavity of a safe's body.

These types of insualtions are not the best for guns, although companies such as Graffunder and AMSEC have their own concoctions that seem to work well for gun safes.

Gypsum board, and ceramic/glass blankets (designed for furnace use) do not make a safe fireproof, which is why you don't see any of these insulations used in UL rated fire safes.

I read that Sargent & Greenleaf's commercial combination box model number 6730 is the industry standard the others are judged by. Is this true?

S&G is a well known company that has been around a very long time. There are other companies, such as LaGard, that make an equally good lock. In most residential uses, the lock won't matter much. S&G, LaGard, Ilco, and others all make UL rated locks with good reputations.

Whats the best relocker type? Glass? I guess this varys depending on how the safe is constructed?

Glass relockers are often found in burglar rated safes, and is very effective against all types of attack. Mechanical relockers will typically only fire under a direct attack against the lock. For residential uses, either one is typically suitable, with the mechanical relockers being the most common by far.

Whats the best type of hardplate? Diamond embedded?

Relsom is some nasty stuff (invented by Mosler), and there is some other equally difficult steel used on safes.

On most gun safes the hardplate is useless. Drills are for professionals, and most professionals aren't burglarizing gun safes. I will say that the nastier the hardplate, the more I charge to open the safe after some bonehead smashes the dial off.

Is it better to use shear pins and clutches inside the door to keep the door from being brute forced open by the handle or build the mechanism soo strong that it can't be broken without serious tools?

Just about every "real safe" built today is designed to have the opening mechanism give way before the boltwork.

How thick does the safe door have to be in order to make prying ineffective? This would also relate to the number of door sides protected by locking bolts.

What is doing the prying? A carpenters hammer, pry bar, or hydraulic spreaders?

1" steel plate is pretty effective against prying, and even 1/2" will give you pretty good protection. The larger the sheet of steel, the easier it will be to pry. A door that is 30" by 55" would be easier to pry than a door that is 12" by 12".

Locking bolts on the opening side of the door along with bolts on the hinge side are often effective enough when the safe is built of substantial construction.

eta- I'm not too concerned if the safe is pretty or not, security is more important.

I would call a local safe dealer that handles used safes. Ask if they have any "composite jewelers safes". These safes will offer high levels of security along with fire resistance (whether they are officially rated or not).

You can often buy a good used name brand safe for less than what many gun safe companies charge for their higher end models. A real safe makes any gun safe look like a joke in comparison.