Oh, By The Way
^^^^^^^^^
He is a Lawyer
like one of the real ones
and he didn't even charge you
and still gave you good advice.
^^^^^^^^^
He is a Lawyer
like one of the real ones
and he didn't even charge you
and still gave you good advice.
Good idea to avoid hollow-points?
- Thread starter Willo
- Start date
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That's funny, I'm a lawyer too. Maybe that's why I've chosen FMJs instead of HPs 
Thanks for all the good responses.
Thanks for all the good responses.If your state courts are prepared to throw their versions of Rule 401, 402, 403, and the actual self defense and penal codes out the window then all bets are off anyway. They can just as easily attack you for FMJ's as HP's. They can attack you for being a Republican or voting for a pro-gun candidate. Or for having a firearm to begin with!
Honestly I am going to worry about:
1. Ending the lethal threat against myself and/or my family.
2. Lessening the possibility that I will injure or kill someone not associated with that lethal threat (innocent bystander, etc) by using ammunition that minimizes over-penetration.
After that, I will get a good lawyer and make sure he/she understands the reasoning behind the ammo choice.
1. Ending the lethal threat against myself and/or my family.
2. Lessening the possibility that I will injure or kill someone not associated with that lethal threat (innocent bystander, etc) by using ammunition that minimizes over-penetration.
After that, I will get a good lawyer and make sure he/she understands the reasoning behind the ammo choice.
Creature
Member
the respected handgun writer Mossad Ayoob adivsed against fmj in 9mm due to 'overpenetration' based on NYC cop shoots. too may bystanders behind targets getting hit with pass throughs.
myself I load the Rem GS 124gr slug for me and nephew's 9's both pistol and carbines. these are the tightest grouping slugs off the bench I've ever loaded for the 9mm Luger.
I shot 2 does with my Marlin 9mm to fill doe tags. one a base of head/neck shot dern near blew the head off a good-sized doe.
the other a slightly quartering away shot blew the lungs to pieces. and stopped in off side shoulder.
dern sure don't want to get hit with those slugs.
myself I load the Rem GS 124gr slug for me and nephew's 9's both pistol and carbines. these are the tightest grouping slugs off the bench I've ever loaded for the 9mm Luger.
I shot 2 does with my Marlin 9mm to fill doe tags. one a base of head/neck shot dern near blew the head off a good-sized doe.
the other a slightly quartering away shot blew the lungs to pieces. and stopped in off side shoulder.
dern sure don't want to get hit with those slugs.
Oh come on. I posted that 2 minutes ago not everyone sits by their droid waiting to respond to THR threads.
Creature
Member
As a lawyer, what reasoning are you using to justify the use of FMJ over HP ammunition?
The reason I ask is that HP ammo is not illegal for self defense use under California law. So, it would follow that as long as the shoot was otherwise ruled a "good" (legal) shoot, the type of ammo used would have no bearing on the court proceedings.
Add to that the fact that the only known instance of FMJ vs. HP ammo being used against an individual in court was overturned on appeal, and you have a pretty good standing for using the more effective (and ultimately less dangerous) HP rounds.
No matter what firearm you use or what ammo you use, the DA, if they decide to prosecute, will find there to be a fault with it. If it goes to trial, you will need expert witnesses to justify what you used. The same goes for training or lack of training, etc. No good can come from a self defensive shooting other than the fact you are alive and your loved ones have been protected.
Unless someone wants to PM me with some real court cases where this actually mattered, we'll call this one done for now.
Other than the one that was mentioned earlier I don't recall ever seeing a case where it's documented that the jury decision hinged on the ammo type used.
Juries and judges CAN of course take all kinds of things into consideration as they deliberate, so there's always a chance that this could be the pivot issue, but so could a hundred other things.
Us going back and forth about whether or not it matters doesn't really push the discussion forward so we'll leave it here and let folks decide for themselves.
Other than the one that was mentioned earlier I don't recall ever seeing a case where it's documented that the jury decision hinged on the ammo type used.
Juries and judges CAN of course take all kinds of things into consideration as they deliberate, so there's always a chance that this could be the pivot issue, but so could a hundred other things.
Us going back and forth about whether or not it matters doesn't really push the discussion forward so we'll leave it here and let folks decide for themselves.
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