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Good shoot/Bad shoot in Shreveport

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Chuck Dye, May 17, 2003.

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  1. Chuck Dye

    Chuck Dye Member

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  2. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    What is the controversy about this shooting?

    Perhaps I'm missing something...he lead Shreveport PD on a car chase, exited his vehicle, disregarded verbal commands (I'm assuming), pointed a silver cellphone at an officer in a two-handed imitation of a modified weaver stance, and was shot, right?

    I'll be blunt...I thought it was a handgun until I looked at the stills. And if you have to look at the stills to tell, there is no way you can tell in real time what it is.

    My opinion is preliminary, but I'm not seeing a problem, here.

    Mike
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2003
  3. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    I mean...when I see this photo, I immediately think that he's just trying to make a phone call. :scrutiny:

    Mike
     

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  4. TarpleyG

    TarpleyG Member

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    It is really amazing how many shots it takes to bring someone down. I can't tell from any of the videos when the first shot was made, but it appears that between the two officers that they fired about a dozen times. Kinda makes that first gunfight scene in Last Man Standing (where Bruce Willis shoots the guy and he tumbles about 30 feet out into the street) look sorta bogus, huh?

    GT
     
  5. Kong

    Kong Member

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    I was bored and trying to figure out what actually happened so I timesyned all the videos and threw them together into 1 video where they all play at same time side by side. Also added realtime footnotes showing each shot and which vid it can be seen in:

    http://home.tampabay.rr.com/speed/
     
  6. agricola

    agricola Member

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    that bloke must have been wasted on something
     
  7. Spot77

    Spot77 Member

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    Ya' know, he could've saved himself a bunch if he just would've called out, "C-A-L-L-A-T-T"

    ...or maybe , "Can you hear me now? GOOD"


    I hope these weren't just regional commercials or 3/4 of the forum won't have the slightest clue what I'm joking about.


    I heard on the news that the "suspect" was shot 8 times. Anybody know how many rounds were actually fired?
     
  8. mattd

    mattd Member

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    I don't see anything wrong, the guy was screwed and he knew it, he wanted to die. The cops didn't know it was a cell phone because you can see the cop drunking then shooting.
     
  9. Spot77

    Spot77 Member

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    [The cops didn't know it was a cell phone because you can see the cop drunking then shooting.]


    hahaha..that typo cracks me up.
     
  10. TheeBadOne

    TheeBadOne Member

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    All good in and of itself. Toss in the cell-phone gun pictured above (shown slid open to load chamber, 4 shots total).
     
  11. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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  12. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

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    Folks, we had a long thread on this just a few weeks ago, and ended up having to shut it down because of "good shoot/bad shoot" arguments, disputes, and downright personal comments. I'll leave this one open for now, but at the first sign of things getting off the High Road, the doors slam shut...

    Just a friendly warning from your neighborhood mod! :D
     
  13. clange

    clange Member

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    Very nice split screen video.

    Start watching screen A (7 seconds). You'll see him point at the officer pulling up in the car. Switch to screen C (9sec), the first officer seems to be in trouble (ie the 'gun' gets pointed back at him). The officer that just stopped comes out of the car shooting right away to aid the first officer (2 shots). He sees the threat has changed and stops shooting. Switch back to A (11 sec). They follow the guy while keeping aim. He turns as if to shoot, the left cop ducks and fires, the right cop opens up, and they dont stop until he's down.

    The shot 'counter' seems to make some points as well. It seems to me the officer on the right has had more practice shooting (or at least did better in this situation). By the time the officer on the left fired his second shot (4th overall), the other officer had fired 4. His 5 shots were quick and evenly spaced. The left officer (holding the gun with one hand) fell out of rhthym after shot 4 (6 overall), and took awhile getting the last one off. Thus, the gap between 6 and 7 and why 7 was a little late.

    So the officer on the right fires 5 shots and stops, the other officer is late in the game and still trying to get back into rhythm when he realizes they've fired enough.

    Oh well. I've been viewing the video for quite awhile, whereas they had about 6 seconds in real-time and it was their life in danger.
     
  14. Tropical Z

    Tropical Z Member

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    That guy was an idiot-TRUE!
    BBBBUUUUUUTTTTTTTT,i find videos of multiple LEOS emptying their guns into suspects very disturbing.This isnt 1939 Germany!
     
  15. Powderman

    Powderman Member

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    I'm sorry, guys.

    I know that I do not have as much law enforcement experience as a lot of people on this board.

    But I did grow up in a place where a LOT of guns get pointed at people. Moreover, I've had more than a few pointed at ME.

    I've said that to say this: It is a reflex action for any person to focus on the threat. When a gun or object is pointed at you, your eyes are focused on the object, initially.

    Thus, you hear reports about muzzles looking like train tunnels--and being able to see the rounds in the cylinder and also down the barrel by people caught up in the height of tachypsychia (sp?)--where your senses speed up and sharpen.

    I find it very HARD TO BELIEVE that any trained, cautious and prudent law enforcement officer cannot recognize a cell phone from a distance of about 12 inches.

    Something stinks about this one. Real bad.

    Flame away if you wish, but this one doesn't pass the smell test.

    Am I wrong here?
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2003
  16. clange

    clange Member

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    Then they're awesome actors, cause they ducked etc each time it was pointed in their direction. To tell you the truth, when he got out holding it like that i bet the last thing on their mind was 'i wonder if thats a cell phone'. I dont know if i would have even looked that closely. Probably would have been concentrating on my own gun more at that point.
     
  17. DadOfThree

    DadOfThree Member

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    I thought we all agreed that firing warning shots was a bad idea! :neener:
     
  18. rock jock

    rock jock Member

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    The BG points the cell back at the officer on the left, who ducks and fires one-handed. This seems OK - the officer thought he was being threatened. THEN the BG turns away and continues walking and the officer on the right opens up. Why? The "gun" was no longer pointed at anyone, the suspect is retreating. The last shots seem like a stretch.
     
  19. clange

    clange Member

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    The cop on the right started shooting right when the arm went back (when you figure for reaction time).

    Their actions were in line with thinking he had a weapon. He turned as if to fire, and they responded. He was still walking so he was a threat. How many times have i heard that here? Shoot until the threat is gone.

    So a couple shots were late, big deal. He shouldnt have pointed a 'gun' at officers twice.
     
  20. mattd

    mattd Member

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    His reaction time must of been very slow. The cop on the left fired 2 bullets when he first pointed the phone at him. I do think the cop on the right was a little hot headed after the chase as any human would be,but I think 3 shots would of been enough. I think putting that many bullets in him would be the same as put the gun to his head and pulled the trigger, as he could of.
     
  21. TexasVet

    TexasVet Member

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    The courts have ruled over and over that once you are in a perceived 'deadly force applies" situation, the NUMBER of shots fired subsequently has no legal bearing toward "good/bad shoot" determinations.
    Once you start, you can legally shoot until the threat is stopped, period, whether it takes 1 shot or two hundred. If the first shot is terminal, in fact, all other shots are of NO concern to the courts as they were not fired at a living person.

    (And, no, I don't do your research for you. I wasted enough time finding the stuff out for myself. Make up you own minds if you want to rely on my word. In fact, if you've ever used "Small Arms of the World, 12th edition" as a reference book, you've already trusted my research!)
     
  22. TheeBadOne

    TheeBadOne Member

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