Good source for Bullseye Powder loads (.38 Spc)

[Eightball]

Hey, can anyone point me towards a good, reliable load chart that has data for the old Hercules Bullseye powder? (Loading some LRNs of unknown gr, I'll weigh 'em in tomorrow) Google isn't getting me too far, and the only powder books I have are Hodgedon and Winchester (and an old '79 Speer reloading manual, but it doesn't list Bullseye, to my knowledge). Thanks!

And, any "recommended loads" with that powder for a putzing around-type load out of a 4" .357?

 

[Jim Watson]

Hard to give you a recipe when you don't know how much the turkey weighs.

When you have a bullet weight, look at
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/index.aspx

 

[jacobhh]

I have the load data chart from my old 38 special Lee handloader
copywrite 1969. It lists Hercules Bullseye for 125 to 160 grain
bullets as 3.0 grains. It lists other powders for other weight bullets
from 110 to 200 grains. The powder may have changed in 35+ years though,
so proceed cautiously and check another newer source. Give me your E-mail address and I'll send you a scan of it if you wish. I still don't know how to post pics on this site.

 

[pinkymingeo]

Bullseye has been around for +100yrs, and to my knowledge hasn't changed in that time. A pound of the stuff costs fifteen bucks or so, and will load close to 2000 38spl target rounds. I wonder why you'd use antique powder of unknown quality when the new stuff is ridiculously cheap.

 

[Eightball]

Alright, sorry to resurrect a zombie thread, but I've been insanely busy as of late.

I've got 115.2 (or maybe my table's not level ) gr. LRN. As for why I'm using Bullseye, I got it for free--it's a "what I've got" issue, more than anything. I've got some newer Winchester stuff, but I'd rather "get the hang of" reloading with this older stuff, soas not to "waste" the good powder.

And, jacobh, if you check this thread again, you can email me by clicking my username and using the "send email" option.

And that link (http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/index.aspx) doesn't have 115gr LRN, it goes from 110JHP to 125JSP, no LRN until 200Gr.

So, any "recommended" loads, or scans of older reloading manuals' pages?

 

[Jim Watson]

Alliant has some Bullseye data for 125 gr cast .38 Specials under "Cowboy Loads."
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...typeid=5&weight=125&shellid=1001&bulletid=442

Performance will not be notably different with a 115 gr bullet.

 

[Eightball]

My main concern isn't ballistics/speed, but what I can consider the "max load"--I am just trying to not exceed SAAMI specs, etc. I'm tooling around with these 115gr just to get the hang of reloading, as I said--all the "velocity seeking"/special loads and such will come later.

So, since it's a 125gr they're using, could I effectively consider 4.8 the "max load", or could I possibly round it off to 5.0 grains (since I'm using a modern Smith, not a questionable-metallurgy older firearm) with any degree of safety? And, with the 115gr, I presume that 2.8gr Bullseye serves as an effective "minimum" load as well, or should I not even tool with that load? (worried about potential squibs). I mean, is there any real danger of sticking with those 125gr loads if my bullet is 10gr lighter?

 

[Jim Watson]

Well, let's see, you are using what you consider second rate powder, an odd bullet for the caliber, and are wanting to start rounding UP to "get the hang of reloading"?

I doubt a .2 gr overload from .38 Special data will blow up a .357 magnum revolver (2.8 gr is not going to stick a bullet in the barrel, either.) but that is not the "hang" I would want a new loader to have.


As Jeff Cooper said "you will do what you think best."

 

[Eightball]

Ah, no surprise that you point out the err in my thinking. I was asking more of just a precaution, in case I do decide to load near the top of the possible powder charges; far more likely, I would stick with 3.5~4gr, since most of this will just be "range blasting" ammo to reduce shooting costs, not for accuracy; that will be when I start loading JHPs with the pound of 281 I have. Would there necessarily be anything wrong with just arbitrarily deciding to start loading a bunch of rounds with a "midpoint" of powder, rather than the "working up from 10% below the minimum" that is common for accuracy purposes, if this first batch will primarily be a "get some trigger time in without spending lots of $$$ on ammunition" batch?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but as I've said, it's the first batch I'm running on my setup here (loaded plenty .22-250 at a buddy's place, though, but he's got a better setup and was there to watch over and make sure I didn't screw up).

that is not the "hang" I would want a new loader to have.

Indeed, it isn't the habit I am into doing when reloading, it's just that this is a situation which has odd criteria to meet; normally, nothing anywhere near that stupid crosses my brain.

 

[HankB]

From the Lyman reloading handbook, 45th edition:

.38 Special

112 grain cast, #358425, #2 alloy
Starting Load: 2.0 grains, 572 ft/sec
Maximum load: 3.8 grains, 954 ft/sec

121 grain cast, #358242 (or 356402), #2 alloy
Starting Load: 2.0 grains, 560 ft/sec
Maximum load: 3.8 grains, 923 ft/sec

Test firearm was an S&W M14 with a 6" barrel.

Later editions show more powder, but also get into the +P range. I've used the "maximum" load of 3.5 grains with a 155-160 grain cast bullet and found the loads to be mild, so I suspect even the "maximum" loads listed above would be mild with a 115 grain bullet.

Note that the traditional target load uses 2.7 grains of Bullseye with a 148 grain HBWC.

There's nothing wrong with Bullseye for target loads.

 

[Eightball]

.38 Special

112 grain cast, #358425, #2 alloy
Starting Load: 2.0 grains, 572 ft/sec
Maximum load: 3.8 grains, 954 ft/sec

Aaaaaahhhh, good! I presume, then, that this is a much "safer" load to use? Though, I have to ask--what do the +P loads list for a 112 grain? And, stupid question, but when it says "cast, #X alloy"--I assume those are LRNs?

It seems odd that the minimum/maximum powder loads for a 112gr are so much less than for the 125gr, but I'm not about to question it.

Note that the traditional target load uses 2.7 grains of Bullseye with a 148 grain HBWC.

I have 200-ish full WC bullets down there as well, but I'm not going to use those until I get this stuff "down pat"--as those are more suited to accuracy purposes.

 

[HankB]

"#2 alloy" is Lyman's own suggested mixture of 90% lead, 5% tin, and 5% antimony.

Lyman's #358425 was a wadcutter design.

The Pistol and Revolver Handbook (not sure which edition, I'm working from copies, and I'm sure they're at least 25 years old) doesn't list the 112 grain bullet - but it lists two 121 grain cast bullets.

121 grain cast bullet, Bullseye powder
#358242 (Linotype) 1.450" OAL (this was a round-nose design)
Starting Load: 2.8 grains 690 ft/sec 8600 C.U.P.
Maximum Load: 4.6 grains 1001 ft/sec 16400 C.U.P.
"+P" Load: 4.9 grains 1045 ft/sec 18,400 C.U.P.

121 grain cast bullet, Bullseye powder
#356402 (Linotype) 1.450" OAL (this was a truncated cone design)
Starting Load: 3.8 grains 847 ft/sec 11,400 C.U.P.
Maximum Load: 5.0 grains 1048 ft/sec 16,500 C.U.P.
"+P" Load: 5.3 grains 1068 ft/sec 18,200 C.U.P.

 

[Eightball]

I got a knowledgeable friend of mine to look for some data, and this is what he gave me:

This load is for a .38 Spl. 110 grain RN, should work fine with the lighter
projectile, very mild, nice practice load.
Minimum OAL(inches) Bbl Length Primer Powder Charge Weight(grains)
Velocity(fps) Chamber Pressure(psi)
1.43 5.6 Fed. 100 Bullseye 4.5
1,085 14,900

Opinions?

My problem is that I'm looking for an "all-around, absolute" set of loading data...which is apparently hard to find.

 

[Big Az Al]

GO to Alliant powder website

http://www.alliantpowder.com/

They have recipes for bullseye, and if in doubt will answer E-mails promptly!

I grew up with 3.0 grains of bullseye a 158 cast semiwadcutter, not the fastest load in the book, but shooters that needed one hole potential chose this!