Goodbye Kel-Tec, Hello Bersa?

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The Bersa CC is a fine weapon. Much more accurate than the Kel-Tec P3AT with faster follow up shots. The trigger is nice and the weapon has a metal frame. Yes it's bigger and heavier but I think that is a good thing. I can fit mine in the front pocket of my Dickies jeans. I do have to wear a belt though otherwise it's heavy enough to pull my pants down and that's not a good thing.

Don't get me wrong, the Kel-Tec is a great pistol and is very convenient to carry but I just shoot better with the Bersa. I also like the PPK. The PPK/S is a little too large to fit in a front pocket.
 
Have you looked at either the PA-63 or the double stack CZ-82
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THe PA-63, if I recall correctly, is a bit shorter in length than the CZ-82. THe Makarov cartridge does have some power, but the 380 has much better velocities (around 100 ft/sec more) depending on the weight, and with the diameters being only marginally different, the speed is the better trade-off.

I know the PA-63 is somewhat uncomfortable to shoot without gloves. THe ammo is also a major factor. Current price where I live is 18.99 for WWB in Makarov. The 380 is significantly cheaper. You can, however, get a 380Auto barrel for the PA-63 for around $70, so if you find one for $150-200, you can come in under the Bersa, but again, for a surplus gun versus a factory box with warranty. The aluminum on the PA-63 is also often roughly machined, and despite the wear from service, it is still rough, requiring a bit of ameteur gunsmithing to fit and smooth it out internally.
I have shot a Bersa and was impressed with it's ergos, weight and accuracy. My recommendation is to go with the Bersa over the PA-63.
 
No one will ever convince me there is no place for my Kel-tec. It goes where I go. Mine is a fine fine shooter for what it is.
 
My Kel Tec P3AT has run like a top from day one. I have a Bersa .380 Thunder also but the P3AT is the one that gets carried.
Dallas Jack
 
Folks, I'm going to say this one more time.

This is NOT a Kel-Tec Bashing thread
This is NOT a "compare to Kel-Tec" thread

This is a "one kind of pistol has failed to be reliable for me so I'm switching to something else" thread and all I really want to know about/hear from is Bersa owners.

Now I admit my own error, I should never have mentioned Kel-Tec by name, I should have just said "my BUG is unreliable and I'm considering BERSA". Oops, my fault. Nevertheless, can we -please- try and herd in the thread drift.

Thanks
 
I have a Bersa 380 Thunder, and have carried it OWB from time to time, it is reliable and feeds well, it is now in the place of honor as my backup (or shoudl I say last resort) gun stored in my bathroom (just for times when you can't carry ):D

I also have 3 KT 3pat's 1 1st gen 2 second gen, the only problem I ever had was one of the 2nd gen's trigger bar bent and I had to have KT send me 1 (actually they sent 2).

I would not hesitate to carry either but prefer my M&P40C.

I also have a Bersa Thunder 45. Not shot it yet.

I'm glad you are finding a gun you can use as a BUG, I'm also sorry you were one of the unlucky ones to get a bad (or not reliable) KT.
 
OK, I've owned two Bersa thunder .380s. They are accurate, semi pleasant to shoot, and well made. Plus the price was right. $195.00 for one and $212.00 for the other. They are not prone to FTF or FTE problems.

The only problem I found was the mags are expensive and hard to get. I finally found some at Academy Outdoors for $9.00 each. Much better than the $32.00 I had been quoted at a gunshop.
Dallas Jack
 
Dunno

My Bersa Thnder went south on me after about 500 rds. Even after a trip to the gunsmith it still won't fire reliably. Guess I'll stick with my Mak if I want a .380 type round
 
THe PA-63, if I recall correctly, is a bit shorter in length than the CZ-82. THe Makarov cartridge does have some power, but the 380 has much better velocities (around 100 ft/sec more) depending on the weight, and with the diameters being only marginally different, the speed is the better trade-off.

I know the PA-63 is somewhat uncomfortable to shoot without gloves. THe ammo is also a major factor. Current price where I live is 18.99 for WWB in Makarov. The 380 is significantly cheaper. You can, however, get a 380Auto barrel for the PA-63 for around $70, so if you find one for $150-200, you can come in under the Bersa, but again, for a surplus gun versus a factory box with warranty. The aluminum on the PA-63 is also often roughly machined, and despite the wear from service, it is still rough, requiring a bit of ameteur gunsmithing to fit and smooth it out internally.
I have shot a Bersa and was impressed with it's ergos, weight and accuracy. My recommendation is to go with the Bersa over the PA-63.
Click to expand...

According to this page, the 9x18 Mak has higher velocities than the shorter 9x17 (380) round. The 380 +P is almost equivalent to the 9x18.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Comparisonof9x18mmMakarovetc.htm

Also, from one of my original links, you can buy hollowpoint ammo for $7.25/box. There's a PA-63 on the same site, $110. I don't know how the PA-63 shoots, but the CZ-82 is not uncomfortable at all.

Thanks.
 
Well as mentioned earlier, I found a CZ-82 for a low price so I bought it. Took it to the range again today and man I really do like it a lot. Not -especially- small for a BUG though. Then just as I was about to leave a family arrived and the daughter had her brand new T380CC. She let me shoot a couple of magazines and MAN do I like that pistol!

Yes it's bigger and heavier than my previous BUG but I think it'll work just fine. I think I'll buy one and give it a try.
 
Normally when I buy a pistol I have 3 criteria......price, do I like it, does it shoot well. If it does not fit my hand it does not shoot well. The Bersa Thunder fits all 3 of my criteria.
 
I bought a Thunder .380 CC about 15 months ago and have about 1500 rounds through it. It functioned flawlessly for 1200 rounds and then the sear broke. Bersa fixed it under warranty, test fired the gun and had it back to me in two weeks. Its been flawless ever since.

The gun is very concealable in a pocket holster, which is how I usually carry it. Its accurate and very controllable. I can dump the entire mag into a 2 inch group at 7 yards in under 4 seconds. The safety was insanely stiff when I first got it, but it broke in nicely and is reasonable to operate now. The sights take some getting used to, but work fine after you figure them out. I rarely shoot it past 15 yards, but I can still hit an 8" target with it at 25 yards.

Its hard to beat for the money. The only thing that gives me pause is that it is roughly the same size and weight as a Walther PPS, Kahr CW9 or Kahr P9. With a bigger budget, I might be tempted to go for the more powerful chambering of one of those other guns.
 
I own both the KelTec P3AT and the Bersa Thunder 380.

Both have been 100%, as they should be. If one wasn't, I'd get it fixed or replace it.

One is a little easier to conceal (KelTec), one is a little easier to hold and operate (Bersa).

What's most important to you?

If you are like me, it will depend on what I am wearing.

Dress slacks? KelTec.

Something baggier, like Cargo slacks? Well, I would say Bersa here, but I'm a big fan of a J-frame, so the Bersa, reliable as it is, takes a back seat.
 
I own a P3AT...I do not particularly like it...but nothing is quite as small/light as it is and it even carries in a pair of my swim trunks or on a cord around my neck for deep concealment. It is very picky on ammo that it will digest and it requires constant cleaning/lubing if you plan to carry it regularly. The Bersa is a far superior weapon...but an anchor in comparison. If you want a Bersa, why not just carry a 642? I carry the 642 now...and the P3AT has been retired for my Tuxedo and Sunday "go to meeting" attire...or when I cannot slide the 642 in those tight jean days.
 
You're trying to compare two guns of very different dimensions. The bersa is significantly less concealable than the p3at, to me at least.
 
I own a Bersa Thunder 9UC and love it. When that wonderful holster from UBGHolsters.com comes in, I will feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Do check out the bersatalk forum. Great people who know and love the bersa. Resident gunsmithing as well (from a member.)

Good luck in your quest.
 
I'm going to have to dissent a bit here and state that I'm not aware of any pistol in that size range that I've not heard or seen problems with. The Kel-Tecs seem to be hit or miss..some people put thousands of rounds through them without a problem, and others can't shoot a mag. I know of several satisfied Bersa owners, but personally I've been rather soured to them after watching someone I know have his Kb! on him. Blew the entire side of the frame off, although luckily no injury.

After all that I've seen, I'm honestly becoming convinced that there isn't anything that small that's truly reliable. SIG 232 perhaps? Haven't heard many bad things about Colt Mustangs, but then again they're barely ever seen these days.
 
I would not put a whole lot of faith in any gun rag, blog or otherwise that directly receives money from manufacturers. It's hard to be unbiased when you have to play nice with the manufacturer. Otherwise you get left out of the free test offerings if you don't write positive reviews.

Just the way it is. Most companies don't want any sort of feedback but glaring praise. Don't provide praise, and the test offerings dry up.

Good luck in your choice.

The bersa, sig232 and Walther are all about the same. I'd pick the Sig for the trigger is sweet and the hammer is semi shrouded. Of course, it's the most expensive too. I suppose a Bersa could be cleaned up to run like the Sig, polishing a trigger is not that difficult.
 
I have the Bersa 380 CC and my brother has the Sig232. The Sig has a nicer trigger and shoots somewhat tighter groups, but it is larger in every dimension and weighs a lot more. If the Bersa is a marginal pocket gun, the Sig is over the limit.
 
Walther?

I've been following this thread trying to get some opinions of small autos and noticed that no one has mentioned the PPK – PPK/S

I just bought a nice used SW PPK .380 last week and love it, and I'm really surprised how accurately I can shoot it. No failures with the first 100 rounds of range ammo.

I don't have a whole lot of experience with pocket autos so maybe ignorance is bliss for me, but side by side this gun is a little smaller than the Bersa's.
 
The Bersa is a PPK knock-off. The PPK is slightly smaller than the regular Bersa and slightly bigger than the Bersa CC. The PPK has a better finish and feels better made, but it is also both heavier and more expensive. Its a trade-off.
 
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