Grease - What types and what for?

[Bill_Rights]

I saw another thread about application methods for grease and realized that, great as it would be to get grease right where I want it, I had no idea why to put grease anywhere. And what grease? Why not just use a good gun oil?

I like the experience (therapy) of taking apart a gun, wiping its surfaces down and applying a light film of oil on contact surfaces as I re-assemble it. In some places, I find that powder residue or dust has created a grease-like consistency goop, whether by itself or by thickening of oil. Cleaning this off before it gets too thick and lightly re-oiling seems good.

What surfaces of firearms require grease over freshly-maintained oil? Why? What greases are best for what? (I am not shooting in the Arctic where either grease or oil may freeze into "epoxy" glue.) I do shoot a lot of semi-autos with fast-moving slides, rails, etc.

 

[natman]

Most firearms lubrication is best done with oil, but there are a few spots where grease is called for, usually high pressure areas such as trigger sears, bolt lugs, cocking cams, shotgun hinge pins, etc.

 

[Spartan Gladiator]

check out a product line called slip2000. They have some very good products, good luck

just google slip2000

 

[243winxb]

Break Free CLP, apply, let set 1 hr, wipe excess off. Teflon will remain & protect/lube. To much and it will thicken same as oils.

Greese on trigger sears,

not on the sear/hammer contact area as i understand it.

 

[aminyard]

Brownell's "Action Lube Plus" is a molybdium disulfide grease especially recommended for sear engagemen surfaces. It works very well. On slide rails I prefer a dry lube.

 

[Telekinesis]

I've started using wheel bearing grease on some of my high round count guns. It is pretty much the same thing as the greases specifically marketed for guns, except you get a bucket full of it for $10 as opposed to a little tube for $25. Just pack the grease in some syringes (sans needles of course) and you're good to go.

The way I've heard it said is that oil is for protecting finishes and the metal (especially during storage) but grease is better for working guns that will see a lot of firing and cycling. The main advantage is that grease stays where you put it for the most part. When you shoot a lot and get your gun warmed up, oil will start to move around possibly leaving parts unprotected or less protected than they had been. I have seen several pictures of oil seeping out of the upper and lower of an AR that was going through a carbine class. Oil may also burn off the gun if you get it REALLY hot like you might in a high round count class, while grease won't.

And did I mention, it is much cheaper! Though I guess you could buy car oil and say the same thing about oil...

 

[243winxb]

Brownell's "Action Lube Plus" is a molybdium disulfide grease especially recommended for sear engagemen surfaces.

Thank you for the update. $15 for 2 oz. Cheaper than a trigger job.

 

[Bill_Rights]

To All: Thanks for the tips/advice to long-time shooter who is behind on modern products.

To 243winxb,

Thanks for the pointer to Break Free CLP. Looking at their web site, maybe their heavier weight product Break Free LP might seem to be the correct replacement for grease. Here's the web page (go to http://www.break-free.com/?location=/products/index.asp and click "Lubricant/Presevative") wording:

LUBRICANT / PRESERVATIVE FOR RAPID-FIRE AUTOMATICS AND STAINLESS STEEL FIREARMS.
Lubricant/Preservative is beneficial to all shooters, but especially heavy volume shooters of rapid fire automatic handguns and rifles including Law Enforcement Officers and all target shooters.

* Originally developed for manufacturers of heavy automatic military cannon to keep their weapons working under long and sustained fire during battle.
* Secret formula contains specially polymerized synthetic oils for improved boundary film strength, plus multiple anti-wear and extreme pressure additives to reduce friction, stop build-up of foreign particles, and inhibit rust and corrosion of all metal.
* Consistent cyclic rates are maintained and gun actions operate smoother and easier even under adverse conditions and extended firing periods.
* Replaces grease and heavy viscosity lubes.
* Ideal for all firearms from semi-automatic to military/police assault weapons. Great for polymer composition automatics. Prevent galling on stainless steel and other exotic gunmetals including titanium.
* Doesn't dry out, harden, solidify or attract metal fines and other contaminants. Always stays in bearing area to lubricate.
* Environmentally safer and user friendly.

Any knowledge or experience with that?

 

[bigedp51]

If you go to http://www.accurateshooter.com/ you will see most of these shooters emphasize lubing the locking lugs with grease and not just oil. These bench rest and competition shooters are neck sizing with slight closing pressure of the bolt. Lubing the locking lugs will prevent premature wear, friction and possibly galling of the lugs with snug fitting cartridges. Remember a factory round or full length resized round will have at least .002 head clearance and not have any pressure on the lugs when closing the bolt.

Bolt Maintenance Methods & Materials

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/bolt-maintenance-methods-materials/

 

[243winxb]

Break Free LP, thats new to me.

 

[Drail]

I have always used Breakfree CLP on everything except sear/hammer surfaces. For that I still have some 25 year old Chip McCormick Trigger Job grease. That stuff is the slickest, blackest, nastiest grease I have ever seen but a tiny glob on the hammer hooks and you wouldn't believe the difference. Stays where you put it and doesn't creep away or evaporate.

 

[JayPee]

I've been an oil user most of my life, and worked for an agency that used only CLP in about 15,000 of its guns for a couple of decades. I use Mobil 1 mainly now, which is polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic oil, and one of the key ingredients of CLP (40-60%) is polyalphaolefin synthetic oil, PAO. You can draw your own conclusions. I can attest that synthetic motor oil keeps carbon in suspension in automatic pistols and makes them much easier to clean.

In my AR's I have used Mobil 1 40W on the bolt and carrier group, but am leaning towards grease there, probably a modern industrial grease suitable for high heat and pressure applications. I've been following this issue for some time on different forums and am generally convinced that grease technology reached its zenith a decade ago and that providers of specialized gun greases are merely repackaging bulk grease into smaller containers and making a small fortune doing it. I priced out a one ounce container of a big-name gun grease recently at $6.50 - PER OUNCE! I tend to believe that good products are available to gun owners without getting into lubricant technology (and cost) intended for the International Space Station.

Buying specialized gun maintenance stuff might be a good idea in certain highly specialized cases, but it can be a costly mistake in many others. i.e. you can go down to your favorite gun store and buy a magazine/mag well brush for $14.95 or you can go to any drug store in town and get a baby bottle brush for as little as $2.00 and it's the same darn thing. You can pay $2.50-$4.50 per ounce for gun solvents, or you can make up your own batch of Ed's Red for around 18 cents an ounce and it lasts for years. You can pay a big price for specialized gun oils, or you can buy a lifetime worth of gun oil with MOBIL 1 printed on the quart bottle - for around $6.60 per quart - and you even have the choice of viscosity. Pardon the thread drift, but my hackles go up when specialized gun cleaning products are mentioned.

JP

 

[dprice3844444]

amsoil waterproof bearing grease

 

[popper]

Amsoil hypoid (rear axle) grease for moving parts(AR lugs but NOT bolt rings), Mobil 1 for barrels & AR bolt.

 

[Bill_Rights]

JayPee and others, Thanks. And about

Pardon the thread drift, but my hackles go up when specialized gun cleaning products are mentioned.

that is no drift and is anyway pardoned by OP.

Is white lithium grease good for anything on a firearm? I bought a light version of that from the local hardware store for the tracks and rollers on sliding glass and shower doors, because I was tired of thicker greases gathering dust etc. and gumming up (and, of course, oils not staying in place or lasting). A light lithium grease is pretty slippery and seems to be working well for my sliding action (of the doors). White lithium should do OK on guns, but I am a little afraid of what the lithium compound is and can it cause corrosion?

 

[Fleet]

Lithium grease won't hurt a thing...most common greases contain either lithium or a lithium complex in varying amounts. The white lithium grease won't last long though. As to what should be greased and what should be oiled...if it pivots, oil it. If it slides, grease it.

 

[gamestalker]

I shoot my BA's dry and have for many years. I don't use oil on the bore either. But a product made for the lugs is probably OK if it is used in very, very light application. If you have a BA that is unusually rough it may need some lapping work. As a protectant oil is OK, we don't want our firearms to start rusting. But as a general rule, don't oil the bore unless it is as a storage protectant, and make sure the bore is cleaned completely dry of any oil or solvents prior to firing. Even a light film of oil in the chamber can cause serious problems, because the brass needs to sieze against the chamber wall upon firing the weapon. If the brass can't sieze, the action can get damaged from the thrust created by the pressures.

 

[Bill_Rights]

Stalker,

What's a "BA"? Bolt action?

Interesting point about the brass siezing against the inside wall of the chamber during explosion of the powder. First time I ever heard of that or thought of it. But it makes sense. The case will expand radially during the explosion. If the brass is thin enough, it will expand so much that it is only stopped by the wall of the firing chamber. This is the case for most standard ammo, I think. So you are saying:
- a) When the casing presses radially against the inner wall of the firing chamber, the friction is (should be!) large and actually helps stop the casing from recoiling backwards, and by doing that reduces the pressure the locked-up bolt has to bear.
- b) This radial expansion of the casing is only momentary, then it shinks back and releases from the wall of the firing chamber. If the casing didn't shrink back radially, you couldn't extract the spent casing from the chamber.

Is this what you mean or am I reading too much into what you said?

 

[bgr2014]

Gun Grease

I also use Brownells Action Lube Plus on sears, slides and barrel bushings, especially S.S, frames, they tend to gauld. Also on bolt lugs, on back and sides. It doesn't take much just put it on your finger and rub it on, the 2oz. last a long time and it's made for that purose.

 

[Fleet]

Gamestalker, I've heard the myth about dry chambers for decades. I've never seen or heard of firearm that's been damaged where the blame could be laid on lube in the chamber.

 

[Bill_Rights]

White lithium grease

Fleet,

Thanks for the input. I think white lithium grease should be OK. Being a chemist (I can teach you all how!), I looked up the pooh on a typical white lith grease I own. [Remember, my concern was whether the lithium would corrode the steel of the gun.]

Permatex/1.5 oz. (42.5 g.) white lithium grease
Part Number: 80345
Alternate Part Number: WL9
Price; $2.99
AutoZone link

The composition, from the MSDS (Materials Safety Data Sheet) is:

1) 80-90% DISTILLATES (PETROLEUM), HYDROTREATED HEAVY NAPHTHENIC CAS # 4742-52-5
2) < 5% TITANIUM DIOXIDE CAS # 13463-67-7
3) < 5% LITHIUM SOAP CAS # 7620-77-1
4) < 5% ZINC OXIDE CAS # 1314-13-2

The lithium is in the chemical form

LITHIUM SOAP
CAS No. 7620-77-1
Chemical Name: LITHIUM 12-HYDROXYSTEARATE
Synonyms: Ai3-19768;LITHIUM SOAP;Einecs 231-536-5;lithiumhydroxy-12stearate;Lithium-12-hydroxystearat;LITHIUM 12-HYDROXYSTEARATE;12-HYDROXYSTEARICACID,LITHIUMSALT;12-Hydroxyoctadecanoic acid lithium salt;12-hydroxy-octadecanoicacimonolithiumsalt;Octadecanoicacid,12-hydroxy-,monolithiumsalt
CBNumber: CB4459815
Molecular Formula: C18H35LiO3
Formula Weight: 306.41
MOL File: \7620-77-1.mol
(each vertex in the stick figure has one carbon atom and as many hydrogen atoms as needed to complete valence of 4 for carbon)

So the lithium is just a positive charge-balancing counter-ion to the negative-salt soap molecule that is both slippery and a "bridge" between the fatty, non-polar petro distillates and the two polar minerals, TiO2 and ZnO.

In this form [Li+], lithium is pretty mobile but pretty inert. It will not react with steel constituents. However, I would not use it in the barrel/bore or any other place that sees hot powder-combustion gasses.

 

[sm]

RIG and RIG +P are what I used for a long long time. It is still available if you look for it at gun shows and perhaps online.

Rust Inhibiting Grease applied to the exterior protects guns from the elements.

RIG +P is what I used for hinge pins on break open shotguns.

 

[Maj Dad]

One Caveat

As a decorated (read: oily & greasy) veteran of the Lube Wars, I would like to add that M1 Garand & M14 sears should be lubed only with a light oil (your brand, or mine - RemOil). I had spiffed up the sears & hooks on a couple of CMP Garands & my M14 with Tetra grease, and experienced doubles. I talked with one of the CMP armorers (forgot his name, well known, ~12-15 yrs ago) and he told me to clean them off with a degreaser then apply only a light machine oil (see parenthetical reference above ). I have not had a recurrence, and along the way stopped worrying about the best of all possible lubes and use what's closest at hand. I do give a +1 on the Mobil 1, though. Works well and very inexpensive relative to some of the Wonder Lubes...
My 2 cents

 

[1SOW]

I do shoot a lot of semi-autos with fast-moving slides, rails, etc.

Sigs have aluminum frames with steel slides and the slide rails may show less wear using "grease". I use oil and the slide wear stopped when the surfaces "mated" ---yearsss ago.

If your pistols are steel, a good oil applied before shooting works just fine. Many use automotive synthetic oils like Mobil 1.

I like CLP after a full-out degreasing-cleaning for it's ability to "penetrate" into the pistol sear's small parts.
Slide rails, trigger assembly, hammer, bbl lugs, bbl & bushing, mag release, I use Mobil 1 lightly and frequently.

 

[JohnhenrySTL]

I am not a gun smith but I shoot often. I have found when I shoot my auto pistols, if I put anymore than a very, very light coating of standard gun oil on or around the slide and frame, the "grease" ends up getting nasty and stiff with powder residue and dust. However, I find grease to be needed within the "gunsmith" parts of my gun. I prefer a light evenly applied coating all over the surfaces of metal on my firearms.

I am very recently trying something other than my standard Hopps slovent and oil combo. After much peer pressure, I am using CLP breakfree. I never let my guns get dirty enough to really have enough experience for a real opinion. The Breakfree seems to work good, I am just worried about it getting on my rubber grips, my wood stocks, and other non metal surfaces. I have also noticed a very little of it goes a long way. It seems like one little dab is almost more than I like. But then again, I need to do something, the wheel lever on my 442 keeps getting rusty as I lately am trying to pocket carry. Any experiences with cleaners damaging our very loved firearms? And is this question rude of me to divert this thread?