Of course that's their objective. Discovering how to keep hits on a target while running the gun fast is a key part of that. You don't learn that without running a gun fast. Including, during practice/development occassionally outrunning the sights.
GREAT day at the pistol range yesterday
- Thread starter orpington
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bangswitch
Member
I figure it's their gun, their money and their ammo. As long as they do it SAFELY, I won't complain. I do think there's a difference between defensive practice and just wasteful banging away. Target shooters are trying to make small groups, and take their time, defensive shooters practice return to target after recoil and getting off the next shot quickly. I do agree that just filling and emptying magazines with little to show for it except noise and smoke is a bit dumb.
If I were going to suggest to such a shooter as you describe, I'd mention that he'd probably really enjoy a USPS or IDPA match as more challenging than a single, stationary target at the same distance.
If I were going to suggest to such a shooter as you describe, I'd mention that he'd probably really enjoy a USPS or IDPA match as more challenging than a single, stationary target at the same distance.
And that's still far different then a mag dump.
I equate speed training to learning piano.
My oldest daughter is a phenomenal piano player. When she learns a complicated or REALLY FAST piece she plays it slow over and over to work out the quirks and gain muscle memory. I've asked how she reads music that fast and she said "YOU DONT". You reference it, the rest is muscle memory.
Same with shooting, I can almost guarantee you, you will NOT become a proficient speed shooter by doing mag dumps with no regard for accuracy. All you're doing is making noise.
Sure. You have to be trying to control the recoil and watching the sights to get anything out of it. A "mag dump" to empty the magazine is just as useless as slowly firing without any particular intent.
But when people say that only "neatly placed groups" are anything but a waste of time, that statement is true or false depending entirely on one's goals.
And just as you will never get to be a proficient speed shooter by blasting aimlessly (ha!), you also won't get very fast by only shooting at a pace you find comfortable. (Same goes for playing music fast, too, BTW.) If you're not pushing in practice, when exactly are you pushing?
Granted pushing yourself is the only way to improve.
When shooting a timed rifle silloutte event my first goal is a clean course at a fast predetermined cadance. IF I miss one early on I push the rest of the course to see how fast I can go. Course is 5 targets at each of 4 distances, Rim 25/50/75/100yd, Center 50/100/150/200yd. Years ago on the Rim I broke 30 seconds and people thought that was crazy. This year another shooter and I broke 20 seconds with him edging me at the end of the season by .5 sec He also had a round that he missed the third target then finished with a 19/20 in 14secs. Any downed target counts, so not precision shooting, but definitely NOT a mag dump.
When shooting a timed rifle silloutte event my first goal is a clean course at a fast predetermined cadance. IF I miss one early on I push the rest of the course to see how fast I can go. Course is 5 targets at each of 4 distances, Rim 25/50/75/100yd, Center 50/100/150/200yd. Years ago on the Rim I broke 30 seconds and people thought that was crazy. This year another shooter and I broke 20 seconds with him edging me at the end of the season by .5 sec He also had a round that he missed the third target then finished with a 19/20 in 14secs. Any downed target counts, so not precision shooting, but definitely NOT a mag dump.
huntsman
Member
Blowing through a mag makes me smile but an empty box of $20.00 ammo makes me cry.
Taking a shot then contemplating life before shooting the next round definitely ain't me even when I'm shooting a SA revolver.
Shoot fast or shoot slow there's a happy medium somewhere but I'm not always interested in finding it.
Taking a shot then contemplating life before shooting the next round definitely ain't me even when I'm shooting a SA revolver.
Shoot fast or shoot slow there's a happy medium somewhere but I'm not always interested in finding it.
CapnMac
Member
This discussion was starting to irritate me a bit, until I realized something.
OP and I have seen the sort of "jerk" in question, and most of the rest of you have not. And, that's a good thing.
The jerk OP is disliking is the one who learned all gun handling from tv. Whose idea of a long range session is greater than ten minutes. Who shoot a box of 50 at a time, because that's how big a box is. Who probably does not bother with a target as long as something is down range to vaguely point the arm towards. More than half of these, well, let's stick to "jerks" actually have their eyes closed while shooting.
They are not "mag dumping"--they are just blazing away.
They are precisely the reason that so many range insurance policies require slow shooting, like 1 round per 2 seconds.
Sadly, they are among us, though.
OP and I have seen the sort of "jerk" in question, and most of the rest of you have not. And, that's a good thing.
The jerk OP is disliking is the one who learned all gun handling from tv. Whose idea of a long range session is greater than ten minutes. Who shoot a box of 50 at a time, because that's how big a box is. Who probably does not bother with a target as long as something is down range to vaguely point the arm towards. More than half of these, well, let's stick to "jerks" actually have their eyes closed while shooting.
They are not "mag dumping"--they are just blazing away.
They are precisely the reason that so many range insurance policies require slow shooting, like 1 round per 2 seconds.
Sadly, they are among us, though.
CapnMac
Member
Nah, they are pretty much in shock from how loud guns are to much notice (or slow down) 
CapnMac
Member
Story time.
Was a mild but overcast and very busy day at the range. Every position is taken, several by two or three folks taking turns shooting. So, I'm spotting for my bro, who is trying to get familiar with his IPSC-commemorative S&W.
Up zooms this blue corvette. It's hard to miss, it's parked with about 4" overhanging the back of the line (the rest of us are parked about 30' back of the line as we occasionally had to share with silhouette shooters).
Out pops this dude--don't remember much about him, as he's gotten out carrying his shooter, which is shiney and has 6-7" of barrel (memory is hazy, could have been a 29, a 27, or a Wildey or Coogan). All I know is my brain is going "Weapon Behind The Line!!!" at me pretty loud.
Dude sees a vaguely vacant spot, steps up, not to the firing line proper, but maybe half the width of the concrete pad. He points the shooter down range and pumps out six. As in BLAM,BLAM,BLAM,BLAM,BLAM,BLAM.
One is in the dirt about 12' out, another is in the dirt about 20 yards out (on a 25yd line), next three are anybody's guess. Sixth gets the entire line's attention as it's through the over head. Not through the metal panel, but the 2" pipe frame holding it up.
Dude then jumps aback in the 'vette and drives away. Right about the time the range owner shows up, as dude has not bothered to stop and pay the range fee.
Hard to concentrate on spotting while keeping an eye over one's shoulder. Even harder trying to explain to my bro who had been concentrating on a front sight.
Ignition Override
Member
orpington: That much noise in a few seconds is distracting.
But...ATL Dave's comment reminded me of the UK, Germany, Netherlands etc, Canada, Australia etc. And California.
In most cases they can't legally own such a gun, or be seen with one in public. The Czech Republik, Slovakia (?), Slovenia (watch Polenar Tactical on YouTube) and Estonia are exceptions, more similar to us where they can register, then own/shoot a semi-auto AR, Vz-58 etc.
A reminder: in CA next year you can Not own a rifle with a detachable magazine. Counting my blessings. That anti-Sec. Amendment cancer will probably spread to other states.
But...ATL Dave's comment reminded me of the UK, Germany, Netherlands etc, Canada, Australia etc. And California.
In most cases they can't legally own such a gun, or be seen with one in public. The Czech Republik, Slovakia (?), Slovenia (watch Polenar Tactical on YouTube) and Estonia are exceptions, more similar to us where they can register, then own/shoot a semi-auto AR, Vz-58 etc.
A reminder: in CA next year you can Not own a rifle with a detachable magazine. Counting my blessings. That anti-Sec. Amendment cancer will probably spread to other states.
Ramey
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I grew up going to the range with my dad who likes to shoot for groups from a rest. I never really enjoyed it. Years later when I got my ccw as an adult I realized I needed to learn to shoot in a practical way and now I'm a shooter. Me and dad still go to the range. He shoots for groups and I practice my draw and double taps. We both have a good time. 
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