Great Video-It will drive most here nuts!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yet another example of people ranting about topics which they think (wrongly) that they know and understand.

If an agent of the government wants to go onto property, as long as they don't enter the dwelling or the curtilage around the dwelling they do not need a warrant, even if the property is fenced, posted with "no trespassing signs," etc, etc. Basically entry and search of "open fields" do not require a warrant, by the way the majority of a yard surrounding a home (with the exception of the curtilage) is considered an "open field."

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment04/04.html#3

So the rantings of the person who filmed that little scene are ridiculous, and so are some of the rantings on this thread.
 
"The "You don't need a warrant for..." crowd is happy with a status quo that is frankly unamerican."

So you admit that it's normal, although you don't like it. That's fine.

Then you drag the Constitution into it. Let's look at the actual wording:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

See where it says "unreasonable searches"? As the law stands, public safety issues make for reasonable searches.

John
 
I don't know Indiana codes and laws regarding the need for the health inspector to search the premises but the attitude of the Sheriff really gets me riled up:

"If you have nothing to hide why does it matter if she comes on to search?"

GAAAAAHHHH!

That's not the point, smokey.
 
The U.S Supreme court has ruled that there are six brightline exceptions to the search warrant rule. Those are...

1. Stop and Frisk
2. Search Incident to arrest
3. Consent
4. Exegent circumstances
5. Motorvehicle exception
6. Special needs beyond law enforcement
Click to expand...

So when does exception 7 come along, or 8 or maybe exception #9? Well?

The problem is that SCOTUS has allowed ANY exceptions. Once the gubmint gets the black robed monkeys to sign off on one reason to violate a right they have opened the gate to countless other reasons. All they need is to get it worded in a way that insinuates the "public good" will be served and they can always find a blackrobed shyster somewhere to sign off on it.

Indiana ( and probably most states) allow "inspectors" to ignore 4A issues in the name of "public good". So why not appoint inspectors to search for unsafe Marijuana, or unsafe guns or unsafe anything else. That will neatly bypass the need for PC and warrants.

The events of this case may have been legal under Indiana state law but they sure as hell were not Right nor were they anything close to constitutional. Just because some judge signs off on it or some court refuses to overturn these beaurocratic fiats does not give them legitimacy, it only serves to support the evidence that our government cannot be trusted.

What this man did or did not do is not the issue. The issue is were his rights violated in the effort to evaluate what he was doing.
 
JohnBT: Please define reasonable. Now define unreasonable. Please tell us what issues constitute safety. Sex with a partner? Well your partner could catch a disease and then spread it unknowingly. We need to go through your computer as you might be a terrorist since you bought all that gun powder you say is for reloading ammo. We need to know why you bought 10K rounds of ammo?

Eventually you just pave the way so they can search whenever they want.
 
oh yes, I'm UN- american becuase I would advise you to change the system from within and follow the current law unbtil you do.... you know some of you guys really scare me at times.

talking about the American government being unamerican, then I rmember we have free speech and I'm not so woried, you know like that other amendment that protects from "unreasonable" search and seizure.

the very wording tells you that certain searches are reasonable and it needs to be defined by the government, just think how bad it would be if it were left to the prosecutors to define "reasonable".
 
Obviously, whatever this unidentifiable public servant was looking for wan't such an urgent matter that she could not have taken the 5 seconds needed to get a warrant from a judge.
Click to expand...

More like an hour.

Awesome. More judges, more cops, more paperwork, more warrants. THAT'S what America needs!:rolleyes:

We had a neighbor who wanted to build a shed and chimbley. He didn't see why he needed a building permit on "his property."

This was a residential area, and he wanted to put in a pole barn, and a chimney that was white-painted cinderblock around a ceramic flue, jammed up against the red brick. Oh, and a chain link fence in the front of the house. And some other home "improvements."

On the other side, we had White Trash Construction Company rent the house next to us, park their trailers in the grass and create ditches, even parking on our property, turfed up the frontage with 6 trucks, creating a hole my daughter almost broke her leg on (on the sidewalk), and leaving ladders and scaffold lying about. They also didn't cut the grass for 6 months. It seems renting a house was cheaper than renting enough fenced commercial space. Guess what?

Remember a Cholera epidemic in the midwest in 1897? As Heinlein said, "There was no cholera epidemic. Just the usual idiots who put their wells to close to their outhouses." If this guy's putting in a septic tank, it is legal and proper for public safety for it to be inspected.

Don't believe me? Stop cutting your grass, pile the trash in the yard, and see how long it takes for the city to come fix it. And how much your neighbors support you;)
 
Tecumseh, if you're gonna live in a community with codes, rules and regulations, you're gonna obey them. If you don't want to deal with codes, rules and regulations, don't live there.

Odds are, the rules were in place before the guy ever moved to the property, unless he was born there a hundred years ago.

Part of the deal is enforcement. Part of enforcement is the knowledge that construction of whatever sort is done in a proper manner. So, "they" are going to "search".

Just by living in such a locale, you have agreed that such "search" is reasonable and needs no warrant.

Separately: Regulations vary from state to state. At my wife's home in Georgia, outside any city's limits, a building permit is needed for any construction. Inspections occur regularly during construction, and access cannot be denied.

In Texas, outside any city's limits, I need no government permit for anything if the land is more than five acres. (Under five acres, a septic system needs official approval.)

Art
 
Various

Maggoty,

What scares me is people who read a whole lot more into a statement than was written.

Hey, I was talking about a whole PILE of folks who think any search is fine and dandy, just 'cuz the USSC hasn't "made" it illegal. Or has declared that it isn't. One of these days, the rule will be that if the JBT walked a straight line from point A to point B, the search is legal. And these folks will be toasting any cop that stays within those "guidelines."

I would not suggest that someone is unamerican for suggesting working within the system to change it.

JBT John,

I admit that it's what's being done, but "normal" is a very strong word for it.

Public safety is such a wishy-washy concept that it really is scary. And as others have pointed up, "reasonable" is based on what? I think it's a little concept known as probable cause. We don't know what the issue was, but as I said before, she could and should have gotten her warrant.

Madmike,

So, you want LESS restrictions on intrusion? Try ... hmmmm. Move to England. Enjoy.

Hour, shmour. Most of it would have been travel to the court and waking up the judge.

El Tejon,

Known as a straw man. First, we don't KNOW if it was about a septic tank. We know that someone supposed it.

Second, I never said building standards were all poppycock, although many are indeed. I just said that if she wanted to come on the property, she should have gone and gotten her warrant, since evidently, no permit was applied for and no implicit approval for an inspection. Not a lot was going to happen in that much time.

Art Eatman,

It didn't look like a community with a lot of CC&Rs, from what I could see. And there are many instances of building codes that make no sense, or are generated to "facilitate" the housing market, a la Fannie-Mae and Freddy-Mac rules for the secondary market. Just another way to facilitate the security of the rich as they trade in YOUR mortgage.
 
Art Eatman: Well then why do we complain about gun control? I mean if you are going to live there, chances are the laws were there in place, or could have been in place before you were born.

Why not get the warrant to make sure that they can do the search so that the construction is being done properly?

By living in a country such as the US, you agree that the NFA act, the 1968 GCA, and other gun control laws are reasonable.

Why not just get the warrant and that is that? Would it be that hard?
 
If you have nothing to hide, why don't you tell me why you're here Sherrif?

I'm all for obeying codes and ordinances, however, why did they have to refuse to indicate why they were there in the first place? How is that supposed to give me confidence that the government is out for my best interest? Umm, Mr. Property owner, you have to explain yourself, but us gubberment types, we don't?

The sherrif had a gun on his belt, there ya go, gun related thread.:neener:
 
KLD: All I said was that if you ASK for more warrants and cops, you'll GET them. Be careful what you wish for.

SWAT team arrested my neighbor for the meth lab in his garage. There were 1, 2, 3, 4, 12, 17, a lot of police cars on the street, a van, bearded men in vests that said POLICE carrying riot guns.

Some of the activity spilled onto my property.

Would you suggest I have stepped outside with my shotgun and ordered them off my property without a warrant? They were on MY PROPERTY, MY PROPERTY, MY PROPERTY!

And we DO know it was a septic tank. Knowledgeable people here recognized it.

The inspection is part and parcel of the building permit. Don't want the inspection? Don't get the permit. Don't want a violation charge for building without a permit? Go live in the Falklands outside of Stanley. Or the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska.

BTW, I was born in England and moved here to get away from the intrusion.

But go ahead, I urge you to try it. Dig in a new septic system without a building permit. You'll have your day in court. You can inform the judge that he's wrong, the sheriff is wrong, the cops are wrong, the building inspector is wrong, it's all wrong. I'm sure you'll convince him. And you'll be doing it because no lawyer with any integrity will take your case, except to tell you you're going to lose.
 
I really have to wonder when I'm going to read about some of our THR brethren in the paper and on the news, and what kind of image they'll present of us.

Hmm. I wonder if I can start a uranium recycling site on MY PROPERTY, MY PROPERTY, MY PROPERTY, demand a warrant and shoot anyone without one. It's in the Constitution, right? No one would violate my sovereignty, would they?
 
Wrong argument, there, Tecumseh: We obey the stupid gun laws, whether or not we like them--but, we work to change them, do we not? Besides, health and safety are enhanced by rules concerning sewage; the laws concerning guns accomplish nothing. If you don't want building codes and inspections, work to eliminate them.

And as said above, as far as Constitutionality, the Fourth Amendment applies to "unreasonable" and inside one's home. This particular action is neither.

Since I happen to know a little bit about groundwater geology and soils, septic systems and water wells, I have no sympathy for this guy whatsoever. E. coli is not my friend.

Art
 
We can start the TSORA. The Texas State Over-Regulation Association. :D

Maybe Texans Against Reasonable Search and Seizures.


The septic system rules in Texas are fairly new. I think they only came about in the early 90's.
 
Either way I dont like when cops say "If you dont have anything to hide then what are you so worried about"
Click to expand...

That's when you respond "I'll let you search my house if you let me search your house. BTW, I intend to pay special attention to your wife's underwear drawer.".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top