Group says shooting range full of holes

Status
Not open for further replies.

rick_reno

member
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
3,027
We've got way too many loonies from California coming to N. Idaho, and of course they find that it's just not pristine enough for them.

http://www.bonnercountydailybee.com/articles/2005/02/08/news/news01.txt

Group says shooting range full of holes
Posted: Tuesday, Feb 08, 2005 - 08:42:21 am PST
By R.J. COHN
Staff writer

BAYVIEW -- Plans to upgrade a shooting range owned by the Idaho Department of Fish and Game in the Farragut Wildlife Management Area has many residents of this tiny community up in arms over the potential sound of gunfire.

A public meeting will be held at 7 p.m. today in the Bayview Chamber of Commerce building, where Dave Leptich, IFG regional wildlife habitat biologist, will try to explain the range's benefits and measures taken to lessen the noise.

Leptich will have his work cut out. He's facing an opposition Web site and a petition signed by 200 people against the range.

"Farragut is a highly sensitive area, and it's the back yard to over a half-million people in the Inland Northwest," said Mike Lee, a Farragut watchdog. "It's a very special place, and the entire community has really embraced our stance on environmental stewardship. For us not to try to defend one of the last, best places around would be irresponsible. I can't see why an indoor range wouldn't be a better alternative."


At issue is a shooting range that Leptich says was initially proposed for Farragut Wildlife Management Area when the first public meeting was held about it in 1996 during IFG's long-range management plan for the area.

The range has been in use since 1942, when it was a military range for Farragut Naval Training Center. It has been a public range since 1950.

The drawing for the new master plan partitions the current rifle range into seven smaller sections.

It also includes a trap and skeet range, a pistol range, an action-shooting range and a building for events and education.

Leptich said there's also a demand for an archery range at Farragut.

Lee maintains that gunfire will be heard year-round and will have an increasing impact on the solitude and serenity in the park, Bayview and the surrounding area. Real estate values will also be effected as will wildlife and park visitors, he says.

Leptich said he knows that noise is a major concern to residents.

"The bottom line of course is the noise that people say will be heard from the range," said Leptich. "After we're done with our noise management plan for the range, decibel-wise it will be almost quieter than downtown Bayview." This spring a 3- to 4-foot safety fence will be installed to keep park users from accidentally walking into the range.

Leptich says that the department will also stagger the firing line, which will reduce the noise level.

"We're also going to place cement 'ecology' blocks used in highway construction that are a minimum of 8 feet high that will absorb and reflect the noise," he said.

Leptich said the seven smaller partitions will eventually have a roof to cover all shooting points.

"When the noise of gunfire hits the roof, it will partly absorb and reflect it as well," he added. "We're committed to a noise management plan that will be less or equal to 80 decibels at the property line." The noise level in downtown Bayview, Leptich maintains, is between 70 to 80 decibels.

"We're still very sincerely working with the local community and want to continue being good neighbors," he said. "We're cooperating with a subcommittee of Bayview's Chamber of Commerce on effectively dealing with the noise issue."

But as far as Lee and others are concerned, the best way to deal with the noise the range will cause is to simply build an indoor shooting range he says residents would support. Otherwise, many say Farragut will evolve into a shooter's heaven and a resident's hell.

"They need to respect people who come to Farragut to enjoy the great outdoors and not the sound of guns," said Lee, who posted the Web site www.farragut.org. "We know what we hear now (regular shooting) has a lot of impact for people who live on Perimeter Road, who say it rattles their windows.

"Fish and Game needs to do a site survey and see if this is truly an appropriate place for this kind of activity. They don't seem to want to listen to reason."
 
I hope they have some sort of range protection legislation on the books in ID. We passed it a few years ago here in WI. It really helps out in situations like this.
 
It has been a public range since 1950.
This happens all the time. People move into an area with a range, or an airport, or a hog or chicken farm and then try to put it out of business. It defies common sense.
 
Ditto RileyMc

"They need to respect people who come to Farragut to enjoy the great outdoors and not the sound of guns," said Lee, who posted the Web site www.farragut.org. "We know what we hear now (regular shooting) has a lot of impact for people who live on Perimeter Road, who say it rattles their windows.
He's got it backwards. Those people who came to Farragut came to an area where there is a firing range. THEY need to respect the people who were already there. and who use that range.

It's like people who build houses in the glide path of a commercial airport and then complain because they can hear airplanes. :confused: :banghead: :confused:
 
Sidebar:

A fave story of mine...a new development went in beside a dog kennel. It was not long before one of the new owners called the police about the constant barking.

I merely asked him why, if the sound of barking dogs annoyed him, he purchased a home immediately beside a dog kennel. Before he could spit out the words "internal affairs" and "complaint" I then offered to take a report to document this whole affair. I also told him, rather plainly, that if he wanted to do anything about it, he would probably have to hire a lawyer, and one of the first questions he would be asked at trial would be the one I just asked him.

Upon finding out that no, the police would not be going next door and hauling away the dogs, he stated that he no longer required our assistance.

Some people's children.

Mike
 
Why the heck did suppressors end up being an NFA item in the first place? It's not like they are "silencers" like the movies portray.

Why they are so hard to get defies logic. I can buy earmuffs to protect my own hearing when I shoot but I cant quiet the gun to protect everyone elses?

There is a car race track down the road from me, and they made all racers run with mufflers. Everyone was happy after that.

Wonder if I could get a doctor to prescribe suppressors to prevent any further
hearing loss.

That law is almost as dumb as whether or not my AR has a bayonet lug deciding whether or not it's "dangerous".
 
When we can no longer get anything over .22 rimfire, suppressors will be mandatory.... until then, I'm not really holding my breath about it!


It would be nice, that's for sure. I could put my machining abilities to use, take a few hours and craft a nice one-piece bafflestack out of stainless, fit it to a tube, etc....


Sigh.


It's like regulating earplugs and safety glasses, steel toed boots and back belts. It really doesn't make any sense to make safety equipment hard to get.
 
Last edited:
I'm with you, El T. I know my RINO Senators wouldn't support it, but if we could get at least a few . . ..

Likely opposition talking points:

-Silent guns. Silent killers on our streets. Would allow gang bangers to do their dirty deeds without the "bang." Shootings would go undetected in the cities. Terrorists would buy them at gun shows. Would be used by poachers in the woods.

Remember, logic or facts are not a fair argument in response. Our emotional plea would be limited to hearing protection and environmental noise reduction. Their response would be: Nobody NEEDS to shoot guns (except masked police officers).
 
An indoor range? What distance can you shoot there now, and how many stations are there? To build my local range indoors would take a larger building than the local "Convention Center" which is the largest building within 100 miles. It MIGHT fit in a place roughly the size of Busch Stadium.

Who, pray tell, is volunteering to pay for that construction and maintenance?

All of which is not to mention that shooting outdoors is simply infinitely, though subjectively, better than shooting indoors.

I don't want to hear anything about compromising to get along by accepting a lesser shooting experience, either. If you wanted to build a new range near their homes, you'd have a reason to compromise. If they want to build homes near your range, they've got no right whatsoever to any form of compromise. Let them pound sand.

Besides, if they're really building baffles, chances are most of the people complaining will not be able to tell whether anyone's shooting on any given day or not. I shot at a baffled outdoor range in Missouri, and from the road you couldn't have told it was there. It's amazing what can be accomplished.
 
How about an underground range. Just get some backhoes out there, dig trenches, and cover them with plywood. Set the targets with pulleys. Hang some lights and extension cords along the tunnels and you're there.
 
Why the heck did suppressors end up being an NFA item in the first place? It's not like they are "silencers" like the movies portray.

Answered your own question there. The average voter has spend SIGNIFICANTLY more time watching movies that they have spent LEARNING.

"Farragut is a highly sensitive area, and it's the back yard to over a half-million people in the Inland Northwest,"

The population of the ENTIRE STATE OF IDAHO is fewer than 1.5million. Are we to believe that a full 1/3 of them live in this particular community? And if there really are that many people there the fact that he has garnered a WHOPPING 200 signatures to his petition just becomes all the more pathetic. This guy needs to get a grip.
 
Indoor ranges have their own problems. It's too expensive to build large ones, and the lack of good ventilation means airborn lead can become a hazzard. (I mean vaporized lead, not airborn as in being shot at you. :))

Shooting in a fully enclosed area is also harder on your hearing. When shooting outside I'm fine with just ear muffs. However when shooting inside I double plug, and it's still louder.

As aomeone mentioned, indoor skeet shooting doesn't really seem to be something that is practical.

I grew up in a rural area with a neighbor who was a high powered rifle enthusiest and had his own several hundred yard range maybe 400 yards from our house.

The noise didn't bother us. We got used to it pretty quickly.
 
Luckily this is happeneing in Idaho where the laws of nusiance, and especially Kalifornians moving to the nuisance, are pretty clear. I faced many of these same people in litigation over the century old practice of field burning in Northern Idaho and won (even in the 9th Circuit) I am sure that the range will win out here as well - just keep your head above the clouds and think straight.

That said, hopefully one day soon (preferably over Christmas when these folks are all back home in California visiting family) the entire state will decide to slide into the Pacific.
 
#1
"We know what we hear now (regular shooting) has a lot of impact for people who live on Perimeter Road, who say it rattles their windows."
Then replace the glazing putty, you derned Fools!


#14
An indoor range? What distance can you shoot there now, and how many stations are there? To build my local range indoors would take a larger building than the local "Convention Center" which is the largest building within 100 miles. It MIGHT fit in a place roughly the size of Busch Stadium.
Yeah, but think how easy it would be to recycle the shot if you also paved the entire area. You could just sweep up the shot, wearing the proper respirator, of course!


#19
How about underground housing? Then we wouldn't have to hear them complain.
Yeah, if they get too loud, just fill in their outside access hole & vents.

:uhoh: :uhoh: :neener:
 
How do you know it's people from Kailfornia complaining???

It's a Northwesterner thing. It certainly isnt true that EVERYONE who complains about things around here are from California but, the fact is that a disproportinate amount of them are. People have been doing things the same way in much of the Northwest for a long time, and suddenly there is HUGE influx of immigrants from California and suddenly all the shooting ranges are too loud, the hunters are killing bambi, and farmers are destroying the 'open space'. Part of that is due to this shift in demographics.

What is really strange is that I was talking to a friend of mine in LA and he claims that most of the people he meets there were born somewhere else, and he couldnt stop complaining about it. I suppose there is some kind of round-robbin migration rotation where obnoxious people just shift around the country every couple of generations.
 
c/yeager, I believe the term you are looking for is "California" ;)

Symptoms of California:
* BIG spike in housing prices
* Rampant "NIMBY'ism"
* way too many Starbucks ( even Stanwood has a Starbucks...Stanwood!)
* proliferation of "Street of Dreams" neighborhoods
* too much money, not enough sense. Do you really need a Hummer (Range Rover, Excursion...choose one) to commute from Redmond to your law office in Seattle?
* trailheads and skislope areas looking like a live-action LL Bean catalog

:evil:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top