Ignorance is NO excuse for stupidity. Statistics are either ignored or twisted. I have talked to Brits who were "shocked" that I would actually carry a weapon for self defense. They also have knife laws that make your SAK illegal and all their laws are ignored by the criminal element. There is no utopia or Santa, this some people will never understand.
Gun control advocate has me tied up, need help
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kdstrick
Member
Why would someone intent on using a firearm to commit murder be concerned about being prosecuted for possession of an illegal firearm?
It is illegal for felons in the USA to own firearms, yet many still do and commit more crimes.
Gun control laws only affect those who abide by such laws (honest citizens).
It is illegal for felons in the USA to own firearms, yet many still do and commit more crimes.
Gun control laws only affect those who abide by such laws (honest citizens).
withdrawn34
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The UK also defines "crime" differently than the US. Many murders are downgraded to manslaughter over there, since it is easier to get a conviction. Anyone under 15 (or so) isn't even included in the statistics! That is the largest criminal demographic in the UK!
In addition, the stats only track convictions, whereas US stats track anyone even accused of the crime... it does not necessarily follow them all the way through to conviction. So, someone in the US could be convicted of murder, but later be acquitted, yet still have that number go into the official FBI report for the year.
Even if one does look at the stats from the Home Office, tell him to take a look at a simple line graph of historical stats. He'll find that after 1995 (total gun ban), the murder rate actually stayed the same, even going up some. What? How did that happen? Shouldn't murders have DROPPED? Instead, they went up? Only very recently has it come down a bit, but it's still within their historical average. How do things stay the same? Simple, gun control doesn't, never has, and never will work for reducing crime.
In addition, the stats only track convictions, whereas US stats track anyone even accused of the crime... it does not necessarily follow them all the way through to conviction. So, someone in the US could be convicted of murder, but later be acquitted, yet still have that number go into the official FBI report for the year.
Even if one does look at the stats from the Home Office, tell him to take a look at a simple line graph of historical stats. He'll find that after 1995 (total gun ban), the murder rate actually stayed the same, even going up some. What? How did that happen? Shouldn't murders have DROPPED? Instead, they went up? Only very recently has it come down a bit, but it's still within their historical average. How do things stay the same? Simple, gun control doesn't, never has, and never will work for reducing crime.
Carl N. Brown
Member
In comparison of crime rates, U.S. homicides are not necessarily equivalent to the murders (criminal homicides) reported by some systems. In US death stats, if it's not accidental death, or suicide, it is put in the homicide column.
About a week ago a snotty British guy was trying to tell me how gun bans make them soooo much safer the they aren't afraid of their Government so why would they need guns. He capped it by mentioning 2 or 3 totalitarian governments that took over the populace by force to show how futile it was. I told him, "Of course Europeans aren't afraid of their governments. Because every time their government has tried to subdue them, the United States with its population of free armed men has stepped up to free them from oppression. You will never have to be afraid as long as WE are free. WE on the other hand count on NO ONE for our freedom but our own blood, sacrifice, and the sweat of our brow. WE pay the price for our freedom so people like YOU don't have to. (Must be nice) And as long as we are armed, we will remain free. But when we give up our arms, and our government or our enemies some pounding on our doors, who is coming to save us? All the lofty Euros who sip tea and talk about their comfy lives? Will they take up arms for us? I'd rather not find out."
pikid89
Member
well if you had a gun he wouldnt of been able to tie you up
Wow, I never bothered to actually look at what the Brady Bunch uses to score state gun laws.
I fail to see a link between the vast majority of them and actually reducing gun violence. The vast majority only make guns more expensive or more annoying to purchase (legally) at a dealer. Seems to me that they only serve to enlarge the black market.Edit to add: especially with the number of guns of all sorts already available in the US, the firearms horse is already out of the barn (has been for quite some time). There's really no use regulating it. Anyone who wants a gun is going to be able to get one whether it is legal or not.
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Couple of points.
The US has a high crime rate pirmarily because we're a nation of immigrants who are very diverse, racially, by income etc. The more homogenous a society is the less crime it has. In addition most of our murders are criminals fighting other criminals over control of drug distribution in the inner cities. Almost all these cities have European style gun regulation, and surprisingly it's pretty effective especially for ammuition.
One way to show it's not guns is to tweak how you're looking at the statistics. The US has a very high firearms to population ratio (it's almost 1:1), but the % of gun owners isn't much higher than several other very low crime nations (Finland and Switzerland). Switzerland, in particular issues an automatic rifle to all males.
Another example is to look at murder rates and gun ownership by state.
http://www.usacarry.com/forums/general-firearm-discussion/9841-percent-firearms-ownership-state.html
and murder rates by state:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state#MRreg
Put them together and you you'll get this chart.
Several states with high murder rates have very low gun ownership rates (those at the bottom right). They're the upper midwest and some of the rocky mountain states that tend to be homogenous and very similar to the Northern European nations in most socioeconomic statistics (life span, income, education, equality, etc).
The US has a high crime rate pirmarily because we're a nation of immigrants who are very diverse, racially, by income etc. The more homogenous a society is the less crime it has. In addition most of our murders are criminals fighting other criminals over control of drug distribution in the inner cities. Almost all these cities have European style gun regulation, and surprisingly it's pretty effective especially for ammuition.
One way to show it's not guns is to tweak how you're looking at the statistics. The US has a very high firearms to population ratio (it's almost 1:1), but the % of gun owners isn't much higher than several other very low crime nations (Finland and Switzerland). Switzerland, in particular issues an automatic rifle to all males.
Another example is to look at murder rates and gun ownership by state.
http://www.usacarry.com/forums/general-firearm-discussion/9841-percent-firearms-ownership-state.html
and murder rates by state:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state#MRreg
Put them together and you you'll get this chart.
Several states with high murder rates have very low gun ownership rates (those at the bottom right). They're the upper midwest and some of the rocky mountain states that tend to be homogenous and very similar to the Northern European nations in most socioeconomic statistics (life span, income, education, equality, etc).
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
We've given the OP plenty of ammo...
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