Will this actually go anywhere?
http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...merica-right-carry-doesnt-stop-states-border/
http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...merica-right-carry-doesnt-stop-states-border/
Gun Owners of America is renewing their push to secure national CCW reciprocity
- Thread starter Aim1
- Start date
- Status
MaterDei
Member
I certainly hope not. Take this issue out of the hands of the states and we are all screwed.
Take the abortion issue as an example (No debating the merits of this issue here, please). Before Roe vs. Wade, abortion was a state issue. Some states allowed it, some didn't. Now, it is no longer in the hands of the states and the people. Regardless of where you stand on the issue the right to perform abortions is now something that can be changed nationwide with a single supreme court decision.
Do we really want our hard earned state RKBA laws to be in the hands of the supreme court and the US congress? Not me, thank you very much. I suppose if I lived in NY, CA or IL I might be desperate enough to think otherwise.
X-Rap
Member
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2006
- Messages
- 6,657
We get a couple states every year to swing to constitutional carry yet the few strong anti states keep moving the other direction. No way they'll give in to the laws as we see them in the free states. If it goes federal the compromises will be crippling.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
There is no reason a national permit system would require states to make their existing permit systems more onerous. A license system with multiple tiers and different requirements is straightforward to implement and having no first tier (permitless) inside the state would be acceptable. A national system would create an upper limit on the requirements to carry but would not have to affect the lower limit.
BSA1
member
I hope not.
MaterDei
Member
The objection I have is not about the what and the how. It is about the who. I don't want Texas carry laws to be governed by the feds any more than they already are.
There are three states, New Jersey, Maryland and Hawaii that will not offer any form of shall issue to it's citizens.
The only chance to get a a carry permit in those places is to become an armed guard, ex LEO under the definitions under LEOSA or be politically connected, or an important celebrity, or you must have an absolutely ironclad and well documented reason to have one.
As bad as NY State and California is, you can get a carry permit in some counties and maybe have to jump through some hoops in those states. And as bad as Illinois is, you can get a carry permit there too. Rhode Island it is possible to get a carry permit in some towns or cities. Massachusetts it is possible to get a carry permit in most towns.
This is not the case in New Jersey, Maryland and Hawaii.
They are off limits to the 'average law abiding citizen". Reading in the NJ Gun Forums, the applicant was discouraged from applying for a carry permit by the police. A detective told one applicant "don't bother".
An unlike California or New York State, in New Jersey you just can't move to another county in hopes of getting a permit. In NJ once they turn you down (and they will) it goes on your record that you were denied a permit.
There are three states that need to change their laws . And those three states need the help of the NRA, Gun Owners of America and other pro-gun groups to help bring about reform.
If we can get some form of shall issue in those three last states, then it would accomplish a real lot and then we can work about getting reciprocity with those states down the line. But it will impossible until those three last states change their draconian carry permit laws.
So I think we need to turn our efforts on working to change the laws in NJ, MD and HI first and work on the other things.
How can there reciprocity with NJ, MD and HI when those states don't even issue carry permits it's citizens? But yet they are going to accept a carry permit from someone from Kentucky?
As bad as some say Illinois is, it is a sportsman's paradise compared to New Jersey by a mile. In Illinois as long as you have a carry permit from another state, you CAN carry in your car. Shaneen Allen would not have been busted if she was in Illinois.
Going the Federal route and making a law for reciprocity in all 50 states, when 3 of those states don't offer ANY form of getting a carry permit...would open up a can of worms.
First off what would the reciprocity be based on? New Jersey's rules? Maryland's rules? New York City's rules? Arizona's rules? And who makes the rules for reciprocity?
You don't think that the politicians and the attorney generals of NJ, MD and HI would go to the Supreme Court to have the the law thrown out because it didn't meet their standards and definitions?
More importantly even if reciprocity does become the law of the land, and NJ, MD and HI still refuses to offer carry permits to it's citizens. How would someone from NJ be able to carry in any of the other 47 states if they can't even get a carry permit in their own state?
If the law says that a permit from one state is good in all the states. It would be meaningless to someone from NJ, MD and HI because those states do not offer carry permits to it's citizens.
And visa versa. NJ, MD and HI could possibly legally argue that they have the right to refuse to honor carry permits from other states because they (NJ,MD and HI) do not offer any carry permits to it's citizens and thus have the right not to accept any carry permit from other states.
This is why we need to help get the laws changed in those three states FIRST. I don't know what efforts the NRA, GOA and other pro-gun groups have done to help bring about possible reform there recently.
But gun owners in those three states need help,......real bad.
Gun owners in NJ (and MD and HI) are stuck in some early 1980's time warp where defunct groups like Hand Gun Control, Cease Fire and The Brady Bunch still have it's iron clad grip and influence on state politics, legislatures and politicians.
We need to help bring NJ, MD and HI into the 21st century and join the rest of the union in respect to gun rights.
Until that happens, I cannot fathom how reciprocity with all 50 states will ever happen Federally or otherwise.
.
The only chance to get a a carry permit in those places is to become an armed guard, ex LEO under the definitions under LEOSA or be politically connected, or an important celebrity, or you must have an absolutely ironclad and well documented reason to have one.
As bad as NY State and California is, you can get a carry permit in some counties and maybe have to jump through some hoops in those states. And as bad as Illinois is, you can get a carry permit there too. Rhode Island it is possible to get a carry permit in some towns or cities. Massachusetts it is possible to get a carry permit in most towns.
This is not the case in New Jersey, Maryland and Hawaii.
They are off limits to the 'average law abiding citizen". Reading in the NJ Gun Forums, the applicant was discouraged from applying for a carry permit by the police. A detective told one applicant "don't bother".
An unlike California or New York State, in New Jersey you just can't move to another county in hopes of getting a permit. In NJ once they turn you down (and they will) it goes on your record that you were denied a permit.
There are three states that need to change their laws . And those three states need the help of the NRA, Gun Owners of America and other pro-gun groups to help bring about reform.
If we can get some form of shall issue in those three last states, then it would accomplish a real lot and then we can work about getting reciprocity with those states down the line. But it will impossible until those three last states change their draconian carry permit laws.
So I think we need to turn our efforts on working to change the laws in NJ, MD and HI first and work on the other things.
How can there reciprocity with NJ, MD and HI when those states don't even issue carry permits it's citizens? But yet they are going to accept a carry permit from someone from Kentucky?
As bad as some say Illinois is, it is a sportsman's paradise compared to New Jersey by a mile. In Illinois as long as you have a carry permit from another state, you CAN carry in your car. Shaneen Allen would not have been busted if she was in Illinois.
Going the Federal route and making a law for reciprocity in all 50 states, when 3 of those states don't offer ANY form of getting a carry permit...would open up a can of worms.
First off what would the reciprocity be based on? New Jersey's rules? Maryland's rules? New York City's rules? Arizona's rules? And who makes the rules for reciprocity?
You don't think that the politicians and the attorney generals of NJ, MD and HI would go to the Supreme Court to have the the law thrown out because it didn't meet their standards and definitions?
More importantly even if reciprocity does become the law of the land, and NJ, MD and HI still refuses to offer carry permits to it's citizens. How would someone from NJ be able to carry in any of the other 47 states if they can't even get a carry permit in their own state?
If the law says that a permit from one state is good in all the states. It would be meaningless to someone from NJ, MD and HI because those states do not offer carry permits to it's citizens.
And visa versa. NJ, MD and HI could possibly legally argue that they have the right to refuse to honor carry permits from other states because they (NJ,MD and HI) do not offer any carry permits to it's citizens and thus have the right not to accept any carry permit from other states.
This is why we need to help get the laws changed in those three states FIRST. I don't know what efforts the NRA, GOA and other pro-gun groups have done to help bring about possible reform there recently.
But gun owners in those three states need help,......real bad.
Gun owners in NJ (and MD and HI) are stuck in some early 1980's time warp where defunct groups like Hand Gun Control, Cease Fire and The Brady Bunch still have it's iron clad grip and influence on state politics, legislatures and politicians.
We need to help bring NJ, MD and HI into the 21st century and join the rest of the union in respect to gun rights.
Until that happens, I cannot fathom how reciprocity with all 50 states will ever happen Federally or otherwise.
.
Maybe if a bill actually gets introduced there'll be something to discuss. Right now all we have is a press release.
- Status
