Gun safe question

[gilfo]

I am in the market for a safe. Would like pro and con on different locking devices. Regular tumbler or electronic locks. What if the battery goes dead on a electronic lock, how do you get into the safe?

Thanks

 

[Guns and more]

I believe the lock has the memory stored on a chip, but I could be wrong. The battery is supposed to last 7 yrs. and you get a warning light before it dies. Either way, I have the electronic lock, it has been great since I open the safe when I'm home and close it when I leave. I can open it in three seconds. With a tumbler/ dial, I'd never bother to open it, and god help you if you needed to open it in a hurry or in the dark.
I suspect I'll be in the minority, and I appreciate other people's opinions, but make my own choice.

 

[krs]

Electronics fail and you can't predict it.

 

[Rat Robb]

Made sure the safe I ordered did not have electronic combo, old school all the way. If you are worried about saving time, do the first 2 numbers, but you shouldnt need to get in your safe in a hurry.

About it being dark, why wouldnt the lights be on?

-Robb

 

[a1abdj]

Almost every UL rated electronic lock that I'm familiar with has the battery mounted behind the keypad, and not inside the safe.

Electronic locks do have a higher failure rate than mechanical locks, but most gun safe owners fail to maintain their mechanical locks. This can also lead to failure.

 

[arizona98tj]

Unless you are close enough to the air burst to melt the tumblers, it is not likely that a mechanical tumbler lock will suffer from the subsequent EMP.

Having said that, one of the things on my to do list is to see about relocking my safe (yes, I have a touch pad on mine). :banghead:

 

[krs]

Frank, are there foreign made electronic locks in the market?

I've never looked closely at one but is a maker mark visible on the outside of major brand keypad locks?

How would a prospective buyer determine whether or not the lock in front of them is a UL rated lock?

If a safe salesperson in a discount department store type outlet or at a gunshow responds with the name of a major lock brand name when asked what lock is installed in a displayed safe should the prospective buyer take that response as reliable information?

How does one know the quality and security of an electronic lock these days? Look for the "Samsung" label?

 

[Guns and more]

Unless you are close enough to the air burst to melt the tumblers, it is not likely that a mechanical tumbler lock will suffer from the subsequent EMP.

In that case you have a bigger problem than opening your safe.

How does one know the quality and security of an electronic lock these days?

I've only seen two brands on any safe. Mine is round with a LG at the bottom, and I have seen some that are oval.

 

[Nowhere Man]

I like my electronic lock. Easy to lock and unlock.

Try them both before you buy.

Dave

 

[a1abdj]

Frank, are there foreign made electronic locks in the market?

Almost every electronic lock that you'll see here in the us is foreign. Mostly Chinese. Many of the mechanical locks are also being produced in China.

I've never looked closely at one but is a maker mark visible on the outside of major brand keypad locks?

You'll never see anything on the outside, but can probably find a "Made In China" sticker on the backside of the keypad or somewhere on the lock body.

How would a prospective buyer determine whether or not the lock in front of them is a UL rated lock?

If you look at the body of the lock, it should be stamped (or sometimes on a sticker). It will say UL Listed, and then designate the rating Group 1 or Group 2.

If a safe salesperson in a discount department store type outlet or at a gunshow responds with the name of a major lock brand name when asked what lock is installed in a displayed safe should the prospective buyer take that response as reliable information?

Most dials and/or keypads will have the manufacturer's name, logo, or insignia visible. S&G, LG, etc.... If you don't see a name, it may be worth investigating futher. The Chinese like to use very inexpensive knock offs that look like a brand name unit on the outside, but are very different on the inside.

How does one know the quality and security of an electronic lock these days? Look for the "Samsung" label?

Look at the price tag.

The average electronic lock on a gun safe retails in the $120 range. The average electronic lock on a government file cabinet retails in the $2,000 range.

 

[BBBBill]

... The average electronic lock on a gun safe retails in the $120 range. The average electronic lock on a government file cabinet retails in the $2,000 range....

I wouldn't mind it a bit if I had XO7 locks on my safes. But the XO8's were absolute junk!

 

[joefriday]

Safes

I'm in the safe business. Mostly bank safes. S&G stands for Sargeant and Greenleaf, LG stands for LaGard. I prefer mechanical locks. S&G is the most reliable. On a gun safe or bank safe a mechanical S&G is a three wheel lock. That means 3 numbers to open. The safes I've seen at the "big box" stores are usually electronic. Some with S&G and LG, but others with cheap knockoffs.
The things to look at in a safe and questions to ask are 1) the TL rating- this is the amount of time it takes a professional (thief-that is)to get in to the safe. TL15 is the lowest and least expensive all the way up to TL60. 2) Fire rating-How long and at what temperature before things inside are affected by the fire. 3)Look at bolt work on the inside of the door. Have the salesperson remove the inside door cover. If it looks and feels cheap and flimsy-it probably is. 4) Relocking device-If a person attempts to smash the dial off the front of the safe and drive the lock off the back of the door with a punch a relocking device drops in-then nobody's getting in without major damage to the safe.5)Actual weight of the safe. The bank safes I install are solid steel walls and door-3/4" to 1 1/4" on the 5 solid sides and 1 to 1 1/2" on the door Or cladded safes-two 1/8" to 1/4" plates sandwiching concrete or other material between them. Wall and doors are 3 to 4" thick. These safes depending on size range from 2000 to 4000 lbs. There are some gun safes being sold that can be put on a two wheeler(dolly) and rolled out the front door. 6)Is delivery and installation included in price? Does install include anchoring safe to floor (concrete floor with anckor bolts).7) Moving safe when you move. Does price include lifetime moving? If not, How much to move safe to new house?

If you have any more questions. Just post and I'll respond.

david

 

[mfcmb]

You didn't give any hints about your criteria so I don't know if this will be useful, but:

I wanted a small, convenient safe that would hold two handguns and about a thousand rounds of ammo, that my kids couldn't get into.

I got a cheesy little Chinese made Stack-On model PS-515 safe for about $100. It has an electronic keypad, lets me program a six-digit combination, and has a keylock hidden behind a plastic bezel in case the electronic lock doesn't work.

A crude thief could carry it away and smash it with a sledgehammer. A more refined thief could easily pick the keylock. That's all true. But it's fast and convenient to use, I'm certain my kids won't be able to get into my guns, it was affordable, and is easy to find a place for in my closet; those were my only criteria, so it suits me.

Of course YMMV.

 

[Powder_Burn]

a1abdj said:

Electronic locks do have a higher failure rate than mechanical locks, but most gun safe owners fail to maintain their mechanical locks. This can also lead to failure.

Is servicing a quality mechanical lock a do it yourself job? How would a typical owner learn how to perform the maintenance? If servicing requires a locksmith, it seems a high quality electronic would be the way to go for the average user. That said, it would be hard for me to part ways with my old U.S Made S&G from the early 80's assuming I can keep it serviced properly.

 

[a1abdj]

Is servicing a quality mechanical lock a do it yourself job?

Typically not. Although not complex, these locks are very unforgiving. A very simple error can lead to a very expensive lock out situation.

If servicing requires a locksmith, it seems a high quality electronic would be the way to go for the average user.

This is mostly a true statement for commercial users. The money that they save from having the combination changed due to turnover will usually cover the cost of drilling and replacing the lock.

Residential customers are usually not so happy about spending $500 to open and repair their $600 safe.

That said, it would be hard for me to part ways with my old U.S Made S&G from the early 80's assuming I can keep it serviced properly.

Although prices vary around the country, a lock service is usually only a service call and a half hour of labor. Around here, that's $137.50, and you'll only need it once every 5 years.

 

[Riss]

One of my safes is a Sentry with a keypad. Underneath ( inside ) the key pad is a key hole for a big skeleton key to open the safe in the event of a malfunction or dead battery situation.

 

[gary vale]

I searched for a long time and decided on a safe made by Gunvault.
I can tell you it works very nicely for me, I do have young kids in the house.
Four finger buttons on the top, hit the right combination and, BINGO, it pops the front door open. Takes all of 3 seconds...
I have the medium size, big enough for two guns.
Has a silent operation feature and a light inside.

There are also two keys, in case the combo. is forgotten.

Bought mine new on eBay.

 

[delta58]

Make sure you investigate the fire rating, they can be misleading sometimes. I have a Liberty with the expanding door seals and mechanical lock. It weighs 850#. Buy the biggest one you can afford, I bought a 32 gun safe and filled it up immediately.

 

[AirplaneDoc]

Unless you are close enough to the air burst to melt the tumblers, it is not likely that a mechanical tumbler lock will suffer from the subsequent EMP.

You can always shield your safe to protect it from EMP so you will be safe with either even in the event of WW3. Just get the jumbo roll of Aluminium foil from Sams Club.

 

[kirklandkie]

You can always shield your safe to protect it from EMP so you will be safe with either even in the event of WW3. Just get the jumbo roll of Aluminium foil from Sams Club.

yea but everyone knows in the WW3 scenario jumbo rolls of aluminum foil will be the first thing to go...lol
oh and +1 on the biggest safe you can buy, i'm looking at buying one as well and i've come to the same conclusion

-kirk

 

[ScareyH22A]

Someone on another thread mentioned that when you install your safe, put the opening edge of the door against a wall before you anchor it down so the thieves have no leverage with a wall being in the way of their pry bar. Sounds like a very good advice and that's what I'll be doing when I get a safe.

 

[delta58]

ScareyH22A: And also run a bead of silicone around it so they can't shove something under the edge. But it also makes it harder for you if you ever want to move it.

 

[AirplaneDoc]

+1 on the biggest safe you can buy

+++1

I am progressing to a Room. Safe's, Garages, Decks, Trucks, and Trailers are never big enough.

Guess I better start stockpiling the tin foil next to my primers HA