gun safes vs gun cabinets

[g.willikers]

Yeah, from the picture it sure does look like the floor is sagging.
But it could just be perspective of the picture.
A friend put a monster safe in his house.
Fearing it would land in the basement, he had a contractor friend over to take a look.
The contractor said that if the safe was in the corner of an outside wall, it would be ok.
And if the floor began to look suspicious, to support it from below with a floor to ceiling brace.
So far, so good.
A house built on a slab, with no basement or crawl space, should be even better.

 

[heeler]

I have two friends that live in Houston that placed their gun safes in the garage.
Both use Golden Rods to keep out the humidity but both have told me they have found some rust on their stored guns.
I would caution you to wipe down your firearms with gun oil every four months if you are placing your safe in a garage in our humid sub tropical hell.
My safe is in a spare bedroom in a conditioned environment.
Hence no rust.

 

[J-Bar]

If they use the cheap decoys and something bad happens with those guns, i.e. a kaboom, or assault or robbery, SOMEONE will try to sue YOU.

Whether its the local LEO's or the people who stole it in the first place. It is a misdemeanor to have un secured weapons where I live, within a certain distance to an elementary school and middle school.

gotta be locked up, with quick access like a finger combo box.

be safe

His state does not require securing firearms in the owner's home.

 

[sauer1911]

Good to know, but I would bet a dollar to a hole in a donut, that a "lawyer"
would find some way to bring a suit and headache to someone who leaves a decoy weapon out for someone to steal. They would try to prove premeditation, collusion, and nothing but hassle and trouble. NOW fake weapons would be a different story.

But alas, if they are going to get them, they are going to get them. It is up to us to do the best to deter a great majority of them.

be safe

 

[Cee Zee]

Someone I know had someone break into their house. The robber stole a cheap shotgun and left a brand new, nice pistol laying right beside it. Go figure that one. Maybe they thought they old shotgun would be totally untraceable and it was. The new pistol probably still had the record of the purchase at the LGS where it was bought since it was a very new gun. Maybe they thought there was a chance the pistol could be proven to be stolen when they tried to pawn it while the shotgun wouldn't have any recorded serial number anywhere. I really don't know. I don't break in to houses for a living. I don't think that robber did either. They caught him pretty quick and he was a stupid kid that didn't know what he was doing. Still maybe he knows something I don't know.

A oerson needs to be very careful about attaching something to a foundation. You don't want to crack that foundation. I don't know how the poster was intending to connect his safe to the foundation but I can think of several ways that would be bad. My dad was a contractor and I spent way too many hours building houses and I know what a cracked foundation can do.

Slab floors should generally be sturdy enough to support a RSC unless it weighs a whole bunch more than mine does. The weight is generally spread out pretty well. If it was concentrated on one spot then yeah the weight would be a problem. If you suspect it might be a problem put a large piece of plywood under the safe to spread the weight out even more. You sure don't want your safe sitting right on concrete anyway because the safe will rust.

Safes generally just slow down the true pros at doing break ins. They can cover you in lawsuit situations too. But unless you dig an underground area out (away from your house but you could dig a tunnel from the house to it) and line it with 2 feet of concrete and put a vault door on it and keep a safe inside that then it's not likely you will stop someone really motivated to get your stuff. At some point it becomes a matter of spending more to protect your guns than you spent to buy them. Most guns can be replaced. The ones I own that I think I can't replace are generally cheap guns no one would want to steal. But my dad gave them to me so I'll be keeping those above all the others. But I wouldn't want to spend $10,000 to protect $5000 worth of guns. The amount you're willing to spend should take this kind of thinking into account. There's a point where it just costs too much to protect a gun collection unless you happen to own the pistol Hitler used to off himself.

 

[mgmorden]

Cabinets are for keeping kids out. Safes are for keeping thieves out.

The alarm helps if you have a safe though. Generally given enough time to work on it a thief can even break open as safe (or tear it out and get it in a truck). However, an alarm basically reduces their available time to be in the home. If they don't bolt immediately they're going to spend no more than 2-3 minutes in there. As long as its bolted to the floor they're not going to break into an actual safe in 2-3 minutes.

 

[sauer1911]

Its going to be bolted down with big fat Hilti concrete anchor bolts. The concrete slab already has its share of cracks. Not going to pour a new slab, not going to worry about rust, this is so. cal.

Just short of sitting there 24/7 with a loaded shotgun, I think I have this pretty well covered. I'm sure I or others will find flaws but oh well, so far this is it.

be safe

 

[d2wing]

Some folks do not realize that in California many people live in walled yards and the living areas extend to garages and patios. I have never seen a basement there. Sometimes the garage are offices, storage areas and shops. Most of it is dry. It is much to humid to store weapons anywhere where it is not heated and cooled here.

 

[a1abdj]

Cabinets are for keeping kids out. Safes are for keeping thieves out.

Very true. The problem is that many people are using cabinets masquerading as safes. I don't know what it is, but many assume that a thin piece of steel folded into a box, with a combination lock, somehow gains magical properties which will keep a bad guy out.

 

[sauer1911]

I HAVE BEEN SENT A PRIVATE MESSAGE STATING THAT I WAS RUDE AND INAPROPRIATE.

I felt I was standing up for my right to post and not be bullied. To speak my mind and share my mistakes in securing my stuff, not be looked down upon.

I was told to send a private message to he who I offended. SO again, I say to WARP I am sorry and I apologize in the open forum, NOT in a private message.

I still feel it was off topic and an attempt to derail the post. But again I am sorry.

be safe.

 

[Warp]

Very true. The problem is that many people are using cabinets masquerading as safes. I don't know what it is, but many assume that a thin piece of steel folded into a box, with a combination lock, somehow gains magical properties which will keep a bad guy out.

Speaking of masquerades...almost all of our "safes" are actually RSC's (residential security containers" masquerading as safes. 5-15 minutes with basic hand tools to gain entry.

 

[rockhopper46038]

a1abdj and CB900F, I have a question that I've been uneasy about, but don't know exactly what to do. My problem is not an awful one to have, but it's still a problem. One of my safes is a real monster, weighing about 4000lbs. The safe technician who moved it and set it up for me (on a concrete slab) put it up on some metal shim blocks to level it, so it's slightly up off the floor. It has a monolithic cast body without any holes in the bottom for mounting and when I asked the technician about bolting it down he told me it wasn't necessary. While I'd like to bolt it down, I'm uncertain if it really is necessary to do it, or how I would go about drilling holes in the base. The casting of the body is 3-3/4" thick composite material. If need be I'll engage the services of a safe technician to drill the holes, but I imagine it'll be expensive, and it;ll still sit a little above the concrete surface (on the shims).

 

[Warp]

The main reason to bolt a safe down is so that it cannot be tipped over, exposing the lesser-protected bottom and back while giving easier leverage to pry the door open. Do you think it is possible somebody would tip the thing over to help gain access? Because...if it's 4,000 lbs...that's freaking insane. I can't imagine what it would take to tip that over in any reasonably foreseeable residential burglary scenario.

 

[rockhopper46038]

If they did, I can hope it falls on them, I suppose.

 

[a1abdj]

One of my safes is a real monster, weighing about 4000lbs. The safe technician who moved it and set it up for me (on a concrete slab) put it up on some metal shim blocks to level it, so it's slightly up off the floor. It has a monolithic cast body without any holes in the bottom for mounting and when I asked the technician about bolting it down he told me it wasn't necessary. While I'd like to bolt it down, I'm uncertain if it really is necessary to do it, or how I would go about drilling holes in the base. The casting of the body is 3-3/4" thick composite material. If need be I'll engage the services of a safe technician to drill the holes, but I imagine it'll be expensive, and it;ll still sit a little above the concrete surface (on the shims).

When mounting holes are required on safes like these, they are often part of the manufacturing process. It's easier to account for them ahead of time than it is to have to drill them after the fact. It's not always a big deal to drill mounting holes, yet depending on who makes the safe, may not be fun or inexpensive.

Unless you have heavy equipment available, or live somewhere where nobody would notice, I wouldn't be overly concerned about it growing legs.

You can still secure it without drilling holes through the safe. You could weld angle iron down the sides, and bolt the angle into the floor. Then weld the bolt heads to the angle. Sometimes this type of stuff works to your advantage, because it distracts the amateurs. They may be more willing to try to unbolt it, since they can see how it's bolted, than to spend the time doing something productive/damaging.

 

[rockhopper46038]

Thanks much, a1abdj! That's exactly the advice I was looking for.

 

[CB900F]

Rockhopper;

Further along that same theme is building an angle iron frame for it. Weld up the frame & do as A1abdj suggested. This allows you to put a concealing piece of strap steel across the front & preventing someone from seeing the shim gap & getting ideas. If you're creative, the strap can be removed if the unit needs re-leveling in the future.

900F

 

[rockhopper46038]

Also an excellent idea, CB900F. Thank you.

 

[sauer1911]

Sitting here waiting for delivery of my new safe! It reminds me of sitting on the couch as a wee one waiting for the tv debut of Batman! It was 5:30 in the afternoon, and seemed like a lifetime for the show that started at 8pm!

It is only a 1 hour delivery window, but seems like FOREVER!!

be safe. hehe I said safe.