Gun safes

[hovercat]

I see a lot of threads about a person's guns being 'responsibly locked in a safe to keep from criminals". IMO this attitude is giving a point to the antis, and could lead to a British style law, where the police inspect the secure storage area before you are allowed a firearm.
I can understand protecting your collection of fine firearms from theft. I do not concede that the storage in my home of my rifle and shotgun in the corner of the closet is unsafe to the community.
My home is my castle. I AM responsible for what goes on inside. That includes keeping firearms away from children and irresponsible adult guests. It seems to go along with wanting to get a background check before I am allowed to sell my private property, again to supposedly keep from criminals. Please do not give am inch of our liberties.

 

[suemarkp]

So if you are responsible for what goes on inside your castle, how are you held responsible if someone breaks in when you're gone and takes you unsecured guns?

You could argue that you're out the cost of the gun. But that doesn't seem to satisfy the anti's.

I'd like to see some safe storage rule, but there can't be a penalty if you tried and failed. That is, if you used a safe, but someone cut it open with a sawsall or tore the whole safe from its mountings. Even a cable lock to a large object like a bed frame is a decent attempt. But leaving them in the corner is not, or even worse in an unlocked glass and wood gun cabinet.

Usually when they write these laws you are held responsible if a minor or someone else gets their hand on the gun. That is too harsh, especially if you really made a good effort. And no gun inspections either to verify secure storage -- should be only after the fact. But that may be a disincentive for people to report stolen guns though...

 

[heeler]

My locked doors to the castle are enough for the safe storage rule.
The felonious actions of others are not my fault.
But fwiw I do own two gun safes.

 

[mrvco]

I put more than just guns in my safe. Leaving valuable items that can be easily stolen and sold laying unsecured around the house has never made sense to me, but I would never suggest that one should not be able to keep your HD weapon at arms reach if and when you feel the need.

While I'm against tax credits in principle (don't take so much in the first place thank you), I think that in practice, a tax credit for buying a gun safe would make some sense... Similar to the tax credits you can get for buying an energy efficient furnace or a toilet that has to be flushed twice after a heavy load. Goodness knows the government spends infinitely more money on things that provide infinitely less utility.

 

[JFtheGR8]

Unfortunately, there have been far too many instances of careless gun owners not securing their firearms from others who are not mentally stable living in the same household. The few ruin it for the many. While I don't own a safe, all of my firearms have either trigger or cable locks rendering them inoperable (yeah I know they can be breached with some effort but at least it's a deterrent). My home defense firearm has a combination lock that only takes a few seconds to open. I don't think that is too much to ask. People that use the "But I live alone" argument should be asked if they ever have any visitors that could access their firearms without their knowledge. If the answer is no and that they live alone with no interaction of any kind other than social media or internet forums then that should be a red flag. When you are required by some law to own a safe then thank the ones who have let a nut job get ahold of their guns and then gone on a killing spree.


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[chipcom]

I'd like to see some safe storage rule

But here's the thing...a motor vehicle has the same lethal potential as a firearm...shall we require some safe storage rule for those too? How about chainsaws? Prescription drugs? Kitchen knives?

 

[JFtheGR8]

Quote:


But here's the thing...a motor vehicle has the same lethal potential as a firearm...shall we require some safe storage rule for those too? How about chainsaws? Prescription drugs? Kitchen knives?

Sorry, but that's just not a good argument. If you can show where deranged individuals have carried out mass murders with the same frequency as firearms with the items you referenced then it would be a valid comparison. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely don't support gun control of any kind but there are idiots out there that just don't get it when it comes to gun safety. Unfortunately, often they end up losing their lives staring down the wrong end of their own barrels.


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[c4v3man]

Either the government should enact something that is enforced effectively (meaning invasive home searches, permits, and the like) or they shouldn't do anything at all. What's the point of having them come up with "safe storage guidelines" that have no enforcement? What do you expect them to say that the NRA or other organizations haven't already? Doing something that is completely ineffective is WORSE than doing nothing at all.

According to those in power at this time, "what happens in the bedroom is not for us to debate", I think the same applies here. My RIGHTS "shall not be infringed", so I'll store them how I dang well please.

 

[JohnM]

there are idiots out there that just don't get it when it comes to gun safety. Unfortunately, often they end up losing their lives staring down the wrong end of their own barrels

How about some citations, numbers showing how often this happens per gun owning households.

This is all control freak BS.

 

[dab102999]

Sorry, but that's just not a good argument. If you can show where deranged individuals have carried out mass murders with the same frequency as firearms with the items you referenced then it would be a valid comparison. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely don't support gun control of any kind but there are idiots out there that just don't get it when it comes to gun safety. Unfortunately, often they end up losing their lives staring down the wrong end of their own barrels.


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With said is a majority of gun crimes and murders done by "deranged" individuals or are they carried out by drug crimes and thefts??. Saying deranged just jumps on the bandwagon of the anti's. Not saying this in not something that needs to be controled but I would bet a majority of gun crimes are not done by these people.

 

[Teachu2]

Irresponsible gun owners feed the antis arguments. Every gun lost to theft or involved in an accident hurts all gun owners. There shouldn't be a need for a law requiring safe gun storage - because all gun owners should secure their guns.

I was young and dumb, once. Speaking from experience, it's a sad, sick feeling when you get ripped off. BTDT, and they took the T-shirt to wrap some pistols in...

My guns are either in my immediate control or locked up if I'm away from home or if I have grandkids over.

 

[mcdonl]

This idiot, and every idiot I know has a gun cabinet with a nice deer scene on it... like our fathers before, and their fathers before them. It is furniture, and where we store our guns.

I am getting sick and tired of the "Safe Fudds" who care about my 2A rights but feel the need to tell me how to store them.

If you live in an area where there is high risk of getting broken into... well.. sucks to be you. I live in a very safe area and no one in my villiage has a safe or cotten to people telling us what to do. Period.

 

[Teachu2]

You are not idiots - your guns are secured in your village - which you define as a safe place. If that is a reasonable definition, more power to you.

The majority of us don't live in crime-free areas, and need to adjust accordingly.

 

[RaceM]

Since more people are bludgeoned to death with claw hammers than shot with rifles we need more regulation of hammers (please note HEAVY sarcasm). The anti-gunners are afraid of life in general, and share the neurosis of all who want to idiot-proof the planet. This is why their response is always to ban whatever it is that their afraid of. No matter how secure your weapons are it will never be enough for them.

 

[JFtheGR8]

Quote:

there are idiots out there that just don't get it when it comes to gun safety. Unfortunately, often they end up losing their lives staring down the wrong end of their own barrels

How about some citations, numbers showing how often this happens per gun owning households.

This is all control freak BS.

You follow the news? Lanza killed his mother with her guns and the teenage boy that killed his family two days ago. Two examples in less than two months. It doesn't really matter what the ratio is. What matters is that it happens due to negligent safety practices. Trivialize a serious issue and you'll come across as a fanatic and nobody listens to that BS.


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[JFtheGR8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFtheGR8

Sorry, but that's just not a good argument. If you can show where deranged individuals have carried out mass murders with the same frequency as firearms with the items you referenced then it would be a valid comparison. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely don't support gun control of any kind but there are idiots out there that just don't get it when it comes to gun safety. Unfortunately, often they end up losing their lives staring down the wrong end of their own barrels.


Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android

With said is a majority of gun crimes and murders done by "deranged" individuals or are they carried out by drug crimes and thefts??. Saying deranged just jumps on the bandwagon of the anti's. Not saying this in not something that needs to be controled but I would bet a majority of gun crimes are not done by these people.

I said mass murders didn't I?


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[JFtheGR8]

You fellas need to chill out. Nobody is calling you idiots, not unless you live with a psycho and don't lock up your guns that is. I'm sure Lanza's mom felt safe with her lack of secured storage too. Like I said the few ruin it for the many. It's been that way for as long as I remember. Plus, I never suggested a storage law. In other posts I have suggested public service messages on gun safety including proper storage.


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[c4v3man]

Plus, I never suggested a storage law. In other posts I have suggested public service messages on gun safety including proper storage.

Why do I, as a taxpayer, need to pay for a public service message that is already being put out by other organizations?

What makes you think a government that is largely anti-gun will put out an unbiased, factual message encouraging proper storage without any other talking points thrown in?

Why do you think the Government is the solution to this problem?

You yourself don't prevent access to the firearms, only delay their use. Lanza could have just as easily have killed his mother with a kitchen knife, then took a dremel to her gun locks and been done in a few minutes.

If she had a safe, he could have killed her (again, with a knife, wire, fists, whatever) and then taken his time getting into the safe.


I think a safe is a good idea. I think any reasonable person agrees. The vast majority of people who purchase a gun know safes exist for them and choose accordingly. Having a PSA about safes isn't going to do anything to stop crime. Having an intrusive law and enforcing it may affect crime, but at what cost? How many innocent people will then die because they no longer have readily accessible firearms for home defense?

 

[JFtheGR8]

Delay their use sure, long enough to call 911? I'd rather fight off someone with a knife than a gun. Plus, if I wasn't living in Illinois I'd probably have a gun on me. I think my odds would be much better than not securing them at all either way. You can talk about what if all you want. I'm talking about what did happen.

A tax is better than a ban or confiscation. I trust roughly half of the government to get the message right as far as public service messages go. But I don't think we should offer anything unless we are positive we're in a losing position.


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[texasgun]

I live by myself in an apartment but I'm a strong believer in secure storage....

when I started my collection and had only two handguns I locked them away during the day (when I was gone) in a $300 fire-safe thing. Not super secure but enough keep the apartment maintenance folks out if they should enter my unit.

with now 6 handguns and 1 rifle and more value I have a gun safe in my apartment (tucked away in a closet). yes, it's not a super-high end safe and "only" has 14 gauge steel with 8 x 1" locking bolts in the front door.... but it's good enough to keep unwanted hands out and the average apartment burglar usually does not have the tools to start working on it (aside from the fact that I live on the 2nd floor with neighbors all around who know me).

my point is: it's a smart idea to lock your guns away so that it at least "slows down" a potential intruder. am I in favor of a gun safe mandate? nope. I'm not. but if you have teenagers around and you do NOT lock your guns away ... and your son gets a gun and shoots someone - you honestly deserve to be sued in court...

if you live by yourself with no kids around - it's your own thing... but given how quickly a gun collection accumulates value... investing $700 in a safe is not a bad idea....

 

[Zardaia]

I'm all for safes especialy if you've got a mental case living with you. That said the government should not dictate it. You'll end up with specific standards and before long the only thing secure enough would be a 10,000 grafunder.

Add on- what about new guys, with a limited budget. Do you require a 300$ safe for somone that lives by themselves and only owns a 200$ shotgun?

 

[JohnM]

No, you let the government dictate proper storage, then you got the government checking up on you to make sure you're doing it! :banghead:

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I'm all for safes and other means to secure firearms. However, I'm NOT all for mandating specific universal storage requirements for my firearms.

This is a matter of personal responsibility, in my opinion, and as with all other things for which I am personally responsible, I expect to be held accountable for my actions if warranted.

If I own a number of firearms, I would expect the majjority of them to be secured somehow. Whether this is by safe, locked cabinet, hidden storage, or whatever, it only makes sense.

However, I would not necessarily have ALL my firearms secured in such a manner. I would not, for example, routinely secure a home defense weapon in a $700 safe. This somewhat mitigates its role as a "home defense weapon".

Common sense should dictate how, indeed even whether, any given firearm should be "secured" by whatever means.

Unfortunately, common sense does not seem to be as universal a commodity as the word "common" would imply. There are a number of firearms owners out there who do the rest of us no justice by their actions.

 

[heeler]

texasgun makes a very good point about people living in apartments which is the sheetrock hovel you call home but most likely is owned by some corporate entity that tries it's best to keep costs down so many times the "maintenance man" might not be all that squeaky clean or from around these parts even legally here.
Then there is the notorious master key that they have access to as well as top management.
My opinion is if you live in rental property have a way to lock your guns up.
But again,in your own home,well that's your business because once you walk out the door and turn the key to the door lock you are not responsible for someones felonious intentions.
I highly advise a decent safe though.

 

[chipcom]

Sorry, but that's just not a good argument. If you can show where deranged individuals have carried out mass murders with the same frequency as firearms with the items you referenced then it would be a valid comparison. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely don't support gun control of any kind but there are idiots out there that just don't get it when it comes to gun safety. Unfortunately, often they end up losing their lives staring down the wrong end of their own barrels.


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You can't legislate to prevent stupid or bestow responsible behavior. I dare say that automobiles have caused more "mass murders" in this country than firearms have (outside of wartime, anyway). Yet we don't try to regulate how cars and trucks are secured, do we? We address auto death and injury by going after root causes...like driving while impaired, excessive speed, cell phone use, texting, etc. We even require education and licensing along with our well-ordered system of traffic laws - yet we still have carnage on the highways.

My point is that our best weapon against idiots with guns is us...not government legislation which can and will include a monstrosity of BS and unintended (or intended) consequences. Our best tact is taking care of our own by not tolerating irresponsibility regarding firearms (or anything else for that matter). Peer pressure isn't just for kids.

Think about it...how many idiots do we laugh off, ignore or even egg on, when they do something stupid? We gotta get over this notion that government action is the default solution to all ills. They are not, and IMO we're darned lazy and irresponsible to buy into such a notion. We have the power within ourselves to regulate the behavior of our alleged peers.