Gun Shipping

[Scrrem]

I recently bought a 340 M&P. After getting it home and checking it over more thoughly, I discovered a small area between the cylinder flutes that the finish did not take. I called S&W and they are sending me a UPS shipping lablel to return the gun. They are telling me I don't need to go through any FFL dealers to ship my gun from Virginia. They said I just need to package it up affix the UPS label they send me and take it to a UPS shipping center. Has anyone else returned a gun back to the factory and how did you do it?
Thanks
Scrrem

 

[rxraptor02]

You can ship it back to Smith and Wesson through UPS.

 

[cdrt]

Ditto. I've shipped two pistols to Smith and Wesson via UPS. No FFL or anything required when you're shipping to one of the big manufacturers. UPS will require that it go overnight express or whatever, so it's nice that S&W is paying the freight.

 

[American_Pit_Bull]

I always put the handgun in it's factory plastic case with my name and return authorization number attached to it. Put it in a box and put the sticker on...

Walk up to the counter and hand it to them. That's it.

 

[BozemanMT]

It has to go 2nd day air, and you should insure it.
and you have to go to a hub, you can't do it from a UPS store. (FedEx has the same basic rules)

I always put mine in a box, so it's just another brown box

 

[Scrrem]

I assume you have to notify them that you have a firearm inside?
Scrrem

 

[Soybomb]

I assume you have to notify them that you have a firearm inside?

Legally you're only required to notify them if you're sending it to someone without a FFL. Since S&W is obviously a FFL, you can just hand them the box and be on your way. No reason to complicate things.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

They said I just need to package it up affix the UPS label they send me and take it to a UPS shipping center.

That is indeed all you need to do, even at the "UPS Stores" who will not normally ship firearms.

 

[DPris]

If S&W is sending you a label, just call UPS after you get it & schedule a pickup at your front door.
You don't have to go anywhere.
Denis

 

[nalioth]

The law says that you can send and receive firearms right from your home when they are being repaired.

Make sure you follow the laws when doing so.

 

[Conqueror]

An important note: while the LAW doesn't require you to notify them that you're shipping a firearm, company POLICY does. That mean's you're SOL if they lose your gun - they will not honor a claim on the value if they lose it and you didn't tell them it was a gun, since you were in violation of company policy.

 

[Scrrem]

An important note: while the LAW doesn't require you to notify them that you're shipping a firearm, company POLICY does. That mean's you're SOL if they lose your gun - they will not honor a claim on the value if they lose it and you didn't tell them it was a gun, since you were in violation of company policy.

Yeah, that's my thought too. At least I will have some recourse of they loose my package.
Scrrem

 

[DPris]

Not telling the shipper it's a firearm is a bad idea, and using the cute "machine parts" trick is not clever, it's worse than bad.
Denis

 

[American_Pit_Bull]

Not telling the shipper it's a firearm is a bad idea, and using the cute "machine parts" trick is not clever, it's worse than bad.
Denis

The only reason that it is a bad idea is outlined by the previous posts...
You take the chance of voiding any claim, if your package is lost. Nothing more.

You could tell them that you are shipping a two pounds of alligator clips and it wouldn't be any more clever or "bad" than if you told them you were shipping machine parts.

 

[putteral]

Just sent my 24/7 pro back to Taurus through UPS. No problems. Went thru Pack n Post and here in Florida UPS guarantees next day delivery. Already got confirmation from Taurus and will ship back to me directly when fixed.

 

[DPris]

Bull,
Machined parts, cotton candy, or buffalo chips, I don't care what dodge you use to get around complying with the carrier's rules, you are still violating those rules. At worst, fraud. At best, denial of insurance claim.
This "machined parts" thing is a perpetual "Gee, ain't I clever in coming up with this one! Nudge, nudge, wink, wink."
It is not clever.

You make your risk assessment, I'll make mine. Mine tells me that it simply is not worth screwing around when shipping guns. There are too many potential pitfalls & liabilities involved. You may quite likely get away with it, but on the other hand, having had an inbound gun from S&W stolen in the UPS process a while back, I know it does happen.

One of the inherent nuisances in firearms ownership is that it can require extra effort & expense to ship one for repairs if needed.

In my case, returning 20 or so guns each year to their makers, the expense adds up, but it's just one of the costs involved in doing business & I bite the bullet and do what it takes to follow the rules.

In the case of a guy who may need to ship a gun once or twice during an entire lifetime, I see no point in assuming the risks in screwing around with the system to save ten bucks or an hour's driving time.


Most of my handgun returns go Fedex, and the nearest Fedex hub is a 50-mile round trip drive. That's what it requires to follow the regs & give me one less worry and one less liability in life in dealing with returns.

I realize opinions differ, but that's mine.

Denis

 

[American_Pit_Bull]

At worst, fraud. At best, denial of insurance claim.

At worst, they could press a fraud charge against you for their losses (which is unprecedented) and you would have to pay court costs and their $20 loss on the sale of services. This is a stretch.

I don't ship without declaring the firearm, due to insurance risks. Since no laws are being broken, that will be your only loss.

 

[Gator]

Do what S&W told you to do. Take it to a UPS shipping center (not a Mom and Pop store that ships, but an actual UPS center), and tell them what is in the box.

 

[Sport45]

At worst, they could press a fraud charge against you for their losses (which is unprecedented) and you would have to pay court costs and their $20 loss on the sale of services. This is a stretch.

Good point.

I'll go a bit further and take a real stretch here. Say an employee or contractor working for the carrier grabs the handgun that is being shipped as "machined parts" or some other nonsense. (The packages could very well go through X-Ray on their way, so the gig is up anyway.) This worker takes your handgun home and hides it in the back of his sock drawer.

Enter his teenage son. The son, of course, knows where dad hides his handguns (I did, didn't you?). He's having a bad week. Girlfriend dumped him for the quarterback and now the linemen are picking on him and poking fun. In a fit of rage son takes your gun from dad's sock drawer, sneaks it to school and starts getting even.

The next thing you know a photocopy of the shipping ticket with your name and address is on national news with a clever reporter pointing out the "machined parts" description used when shipping a firearm by ground transport. You'll then be worried about finding a good lawer and figuring out how on earth you'll get a fair trial.

Is it worth it to save $40 or so? I don't think so.

Check with your local carrier. The feds don't specify that "firearms" be shipped by air, only that they can only be shipped to FFL, manufacturer, etc. The carrier may let you send a handgun by ground freight if you put the frame in one box and the rest in another. Label the contents "firearm parts" and ensure each seperately. It woud be safer to ship the two boxes a couple of days apart. The carriers generally don't define firearms the same way as the government does.

Oh yeah, to answer the original question just follow S&W's instructions. No problems there.

 

[DPris]

No, "Firearms Parts" doesn't fly either.
The serialized part of the gun IS the gun, and disassembling it & shipping in two different boxes makes no difference in circumventing the regs.
Denis

 

[American_Pit_Bull]

figuring out how on earth you'll get a fair trial.

A fair trial for what charge? Breaking Fedex policy?

And DPris is correct... The frame, in most cases, is the "firearm"; slide attached or not... Although there are no regs to circumvent, only policy.

 

[nalioth]

Folks, if you ship a handgun (yes, only the receiver still counts as a handgun) through the US Mail, it's a federal felony if you're caught w/o having an FFL.

I think that's "law", not "policy".

 

[American_Pit_Bull]

Folks, if you ship a handgun (yes, only the receiver still counts as a handgun) through the US Mail, it's a federal felony if you're caught w/o having an FFL.

I think that's "law", not "policy".

This thread is referring to an individual shipping firearms, via common carrier, to an FFL/manufacturer. (common carrier = FedEx/UPS; not USPS)

I am not trying to be argumentative. I am only concurring with Soybomb's post and stating that the only risk faced when voiding a shipping contract, by violating the private company's policy, is cancellation of other services rendered (e.g., insurance).

 

[brickeyee]

Federal law requires a carrier to obtain a signature when delivering a gun.
The carriers ALL have a policy to allow them to comply with this portion of the law.

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 27, Volume 3]
[Revised as of April 1, 2007]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 27CFR478.31]

[Page 33]

TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS, AND FIREARMS

CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

PART 478_COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION--Table of Contents

Subpart C_Administrative and Miscellaneous Provisions

Sec. 478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.

(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to
any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in
interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector,
any package or other container in which there is any firearm or
ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or
ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger
who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported
aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in
interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition
into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such
common or contract carrier for the duration of that trip without
violating any provision of this part.
(b) No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label,
tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package,
luggage, or other container indicating that such package, luggage, or
other container contains a firearm.
(c) No common or contract carrier shall transport or deliver in
interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition with knowledge
or reasonable cause to believe that the shipment, transportation, or
receipt thereof would be in violation of any provision of this part:
Provided, however, That the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply
in respect to the transportation of firearms or ammunition in in-bond
shipment under Customs laws and regulations.
(d) No common or contract carrier shall knowingly deliver in
interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written
acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other
container in which there is a firearm: Provided, That this paragraph
shall not apply with respect to the return of a firearm to a passenger
who places firearms in the carrier's custody for the duration of the
trip.

[33 FR 18555, Dec. 14, 1968. Redesignated at 40 FR 16385, Apr. 15, 1975,
and amended by T.D. ATF-354, 59 FR 7112, Feb. 14, 1994; T.D. ATF-361, 60
FR 10786, Feb. 27, 1995]