Gun Shop horror stories pt. 74.63 (Top This!)

[Navy joe]

Never in all my gunny days have I encountered a GSC or Retail Counter Rambo story that tops this.

So there I was, out running to the bank after work, not even bothering to go home to take off my militree uniform. So I decide to hit up a few local gun shops. First, I check the pawn shop where I have bought a number of guns. Pawn shop has been in business sinces Moses was a private. The old owner likes guns, doesn't know current laws worth diddly. Nice guy to talk to. The daughter sells jewelery, has no clue where the keys to the gun case are. The son runs the shop, holds the FFL and generally sells the guns unless the old man wants to. The son prices all guns at 98% NRA value, and most all are "near mint" as per the latest gun show field guide. Prices are very negotiable and I feel no shame in telling them how it is on prices.

So, I eyeball a Krag that some bubba had ground half of the "Armory" part of Springfield Armory off of the reciever. Further Bubba had re-laquered the wood, getting a fair amount of the metal he had steel wool cleaned laquered as well. Finished off the presentation piece with some cheaparse Japanese 1907 copy sling. I spotted his deft restoration hand on a SA Garand too by the distinctive sling and laquer. :banghead: Then I eyeballed a GC but 20% looked original Krag. If I could get it for 300 less than they were selling it, maybe.

On to the handguns. I look at a well worn but original and apparently tight 1917 S&W. May price it and go back. Then on to the BHP. It is sitting in the case right side up so I see that it is a FN. By the looks of the safety I'm guessing it is a commercial model a little older than my two MKIIs. For the record, I aquired those MKIIs at the same shop for 400 and 390. This one is priced at 495, figure I can leave for 380 tops.

So I ask to see it to verify that it is the 245- prefix commercial gun I think it is. Hmm, finish ok, yep it's Herstal, safety on one side only 70's production? Yep original mag, HMMMM! that's odd, where is the barrel's serial number? Aftermarket? I forgot about the slide S/N below the port so I look to the center of the front strap. Hey, lookee here! NO FREAKIN SERIAL NUMBER! Big old grinder marks. Look back at the barrel, yep its ground too. As I explain to the old man that it is illegal to sell the gun and he needs to get the police I am wiping my prints off on my uniform shirt. I offer to buy the mag and then leave.

Wow, now that I think about it that is asking to get your store closed. That gun could not come in as a sale or pawn unless it went in the bound book. How do ya do that with no freakin numbers? How do you miss big ol grinder marks when you are inspecting it prior to buying it into the shop? Just sitting in the case it could close the shop on an ATF audit. FWIW the old man stuck it back in the case, kinda like the PT-145 I showed him was broken one time. I think I'll print out applicable state and fed law and go back to talk to the prick kid if the gun is still there. I have an interest because:
1. I don't want a place to buy guns closed.
2. A few of my 4473's will go to the ATF when they knock over this taco stand.

If they ignore me, screw it I'll just call the ATF. Not my favorite .gov but I really don't think gun owners need the bad press of a shop selling un traceable guns. Knowing these guys they would probably read the 9m/m on the barrel and put that down for S/N.

 

[duckfoot]

WOW

Sometimes we have to police our own, because we can be our own worst enemy.

 

[OH25shooter]

Navy joe,

Interesting situation you came across. Most cities (at least large metro areas) have a squad of detectives in the local PD who are assigned to monitor pawn shops. Each shop owner is required by law to fill out the proper paperwork on each item received/sold. The detectives always check each store. Many cases have been solved due to stolen items dumped in pawn shops. Something definately smells in that shop. Be careful.

 

[armoredman]

Tucson has an interesting rdinance - any used firearms coming into a shop have to have serial numbers given to local PD for a fifteen day check for stolen or lost.Notice this does not affect purchaser or seller, just the shop, as the gun isn't displayed until it's "waiting period" is over....catch a lot of stolen that way.

 

[BHPshooter]

That's pretty scary.

Add that to the top of the list.

Wes

 

[Mordwyn]

any used firearms coming into a shop have to have serial numbers given to local PD for a fifteen day check for stolen or lost

Orange County Florida (Orlando, etc.) has the same ordinance. A used weapon is sold to a dealer, a form is filled out and faxed to the Sheriffs office. The County then has 14 days to check the S/N against their Hotsheet.

It's closed more than one case.

 

[Matthew Courtney]

Failing to report a federal felony is itself a federal felony: Misprison of a felony. As you have posted this here, I suggest that you edit your post to a mere period, contact an Attorney well versed in USC title 18, and proceed as advised.

 

[P95Carry]

If they have been in business since ''Moses was a private'' ( ) then there cannot be one jot of excuse for that ... I mean, even ''ignorance'' would not cut it in terms of the law, with a newbie gun shop ... but this?? Yikes!

Seems like you have only one choice ..... in fact not a choice at all now!


Give us any update later will ya?

 

[Carlos]

Oh, I don't know. Did "really quick" check. Here's part of the law:

18 U.S.C.A. § 4

§ 4. Misprision of felony

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Regarding this non-reporting of a felony, see

Lancey v. U.S. , 356 F.2d 407, C.A.Cal. 1966.

“Mere silence without some affirmative act is insufficient to authorize a conviction for the offense of misprision of a felony.†Headnote. More reading required. Posting this real quick for the originator's benefit.

I'd go with your gut and protect your butt. You already suggested what you'd do, but I think you should give the "bibically old" business and the man a chance to correct the problem and report it himself.

Be quick.

 

[Matthew Courtney]

He's in Virginia. Ninth circut caselaw only applis to the ninth circut. Even so, his posts here affirmatively establish several things: he knows that illegal acts have taken place, he knows that he should report them, and he intends to play God by telling the Pawnshop owner what should be done under the consequence of being reported.

 

[Carlos]

All the circuits recite and enforce federal law dude, regardless of the circuit. Read the title above. Interpretations of caselaw, hmm, you're right on.

9th Circuit BTW is on our legal research package for work, so I can't directly read the decisions of all the nation's courts, unless I want to pay huge dollars. However, I can get cites.

I haven't attempted a FindLaw or other free internet type search engine yet.

Here's another ditty:

"Issue of whether partial disclosure of knowledge of the commission of a felony constitutes an affirmative step to conceal the crime is a question of statutory interpretation reviewed de novo by the Court of Appeals." U.S. v. Ciambrone, 750 F.2d 1416, C.A.Nev.,1984.

"Person who witnesses a crime does not commit misprision of felony if he simply remains silent." 18 U.S.C.A. § 4.

Oh, don't forget the 9th Circuit covers a lot of real estate, regardless of what most folks around the gun boards think of it.

I'd still call the ATF myself, only after telling the actual FFL holder, or the "Boy", whatever. I personally don't think the old boy paid attention. If the FFL holder knowingly bought and is stupid enough to attempt sale of an illegal firearm, then it's time for action.

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. I do work for one and offer this information as a layperson keenly interested in the story.

 

[Navy joe]

Ok, I found the section of law, USC Title 18 922(k) Unlawful to posess, etc. Looks like in my state it is one of the many "Project Exile" problems.

Printing out the applicable segment of fed law and trying to explain it to the shop is not "playing God" as someone idiotically suggested. It is trying to act like a human being and help the shop see their error and contact their local ATF reps. and sort the problem out. The other option is akin to running down the street and pointing out the Juden to the first cop.(Godwin's law already?) I don't believe in anon tips and our society is weaker for all the snitch thinking people that would suggest them.

Rest assured for all you who worry about my legal status, I committed no crime nor will. I will be back in the shop. I will call my local ATF shop(nice guys) if not resolved.

As far as the crime of not saying anything, I'm not going to read caselaw or lose sleep. If it was a moral(crime against a person) I would have first done something to interrupt my witnessing of it and then reported it. In this case it is administrative so it needs to be dealt with and I see no reason to run headlong into traffic to the first cop car.

 

[Carlos]

It is trying to act like a human being and help the shop see their error and contact their local ATF reps. and sort the problem out.

That how I read it and why I attempted to assist you by saving you from reading caselaw. You already knew the answer, basically. This is a different Title 18 law.

18 U.S.C.A. § 4

§ 4. Misprision of felony

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Navy Joe, you know what to do.

Happy Holidays.

 

[Navy joe]

Happy Holidays to you too Carlos.

This was supposed to be a semi-light hearted look at yet another installment of unbelievable gunshop horrors. The legal part of it was/is my own issue to take care of, see what an afternoon of idyll will get you if it involves browsing gunshops? I guess I'm the winner if nobody can top this laugh riot.

Have a good Christmas folks.

 

[Carlos]

 

[rock jock]

I can see it now. If the shop gets busted, the old man is going to complain about the "danged gubmit trickn' me into ah crime."

 

[artherd]

Um, from my understanding of FFL books and practices of conduct, this is hardly a crime of negligence.

It is not like 'forgetting' to check the SN, or 'not noticing' it was gone.

It is more like 'accidentally starting, placing in gear, chasing and running my car into that guy. And backing up and doing it again. "oops"'

Ie, a set of circumstances that really cannot, through simple negligence, cause themselves to happen. Someone had to knowingly ACT for them to come to pass.


I would be very much on my guard going back into that pawn shop if I were you. Actually, I would not go back in to any place blatantly dealing in trafficing stolen guns.



This isn't like "hrm, it's a muzzle brake, or a flash hider on that gun on your wall" which is simply a matter of interpretation.


That gun has a form that MUST be filled out, where the SN MUST go! It's not there, yet the gun is displayed for sale! That can't happen by itself!



I usually give a big F-U to the rule-books and nervous-nellies, but this really is across the line into something that can really hurt innocent people. (arming criminals that is...)