"deals" at pawnshops ?

[bender]

Is there such a thing as good gun deals at pawn shops? Most of the pawn shops in my city have big signs out front: GUNS
I read thru the previous "pawn shop" thread that was here on THR not too long ago that was complaining about how hard it was to deal with pawn shops.

Do they sell old, used guns at almost brand-new prices? I don't think I've been in a pawn shop in something like 8 years or more. How do you know the history of what you're buying ? (I don't want to buy a murder weapon or something)

Maybe this weekend I'll hit some pawn shops to check it out...

 

[1911 guy]

Gotta know prices going in.

Pawn shops are like miniature gunshows. Most items are used and you need to know prices before buying to avoid getting taken for a ride. Some good deals are out there. So are some crooks.

If you buy from a pawn shop you have to fill out the white federal form. I don't know if the shops run the numbers before putting them up for sale or not.

 

[Zundfolge]

Pawn shops are like miniature gunshows.

Yes, miniature gun shows run by people who know SQUAT about guns.

Keep in mind that most pawn brokers are experts in jewelery ... some know a thing or two about guns, but most don't. As a consequence they tend to grossly over value junk guns but if you get lucky and know your stuff you'll find awesome deals on rare stuff.

Pawn shops are the kind of place you could easily find a Python and a Jennings in the cabinet for the same price (and more likely than not, both are over priced).

I don't know if the shops run the numbers before putting them up for sale or not.

I just had a gun stolen recently and in talking to the cops they say that crooked pawn brokers that trade in illicit guns are rare ... they can make WAY too much money running their businesses legitimately so they don't need the hassles of ATF audits and the local PD breathing down their neck. The cops here told me that every pawn shop submits the serial numbers of the guns in their inventory to the PD and they check NICS to see if they are stolen.

A stolen gun is a loss for a pawn broker ... the cops seize it and he's out the money (of course the pawn broker will turn on the guy he got the gun from in a heartbeat).



Years ago I trolled the pawn shops looking for good deals on guitars ... I soon learned that good deals were very very rare but every shop I went to had a lot of cheap POS used guitars for sale for more than they were new. I imagine guns are the same way (if not worse).

 

[Ditchtiger]

I've found a couple Mosins in new condition,not refinished, for $100 each. Bought them both.

 

[learn2shoot]

I got a Taurus 605 for only 180 at a pawn shop. It was really dusty (cleaned well) but other than that it shoots great.

 

[Axman]

I visited 2 pawn shops earlier today. Not a single "Ring of Fire" gun in either. Of course they both are also new gun dealers so the selection was fair. I did find that they were less in price that the same guns at my local gun shops. For instance, one dealer sold a 4" Taurus .357 revolver for $349, the same exact model sold at the pawn shop was $289. Both were new never fired.

 

[bender]

Seems like you'd have to be really up on prices on everything. I wouldn't know if an old .38 snubbie was a $100 gun or a $300 gun. Other than the fact that obviously a smith or colt snubbie would be alot more than a charter arms or whatever... I'll have to bone up on the used market before hitting some shops.

I'm not expecting to find any good deals though. My former pawn shop experiences have mostly been bad. they take stuff in for dirt cheap, and sell it for an outrageous price.

I swear there's a pawn shop every couple hundred feet it seems like, while I'm driving around town...

edit:

For instance, one dealer sold a 4" Taurus .357 revolver for $349, the same exact model sold at the pawn shop was $289. Both were new never fired.

that's a good price break. maybe I'll find something after all...

 

[moewadle]

I'm sorry, do not want to be rude but...I think Zundfolge is making way too many rash generalizations about a group of people..in this case pawn brokers. To try to balance that a bit I can say I know of a pawn brokerage in Des Moines that seems to be a very knowledgable gun dealer as well as being fair and reasonably priced. The problem with these statements effectively saying that all pawn brokers, or most pawn brokers don't know squat is that you have made an unfair statement based on your knowledge of a very small percentage of all pawn brokers in the USA. That is like saying all members of an certain race are lazy, or most members of a certain ethnic group are tight-fisted, etc. You get the idea. Let's judge each person on his/her individual merits. I believe I see more rash generalizations regarding all types of businesses, people, things on this forum and I would like to see a little more thinking before speaking.

 

[joab]

I have posted many times the deals that I have walked into at pawn shops
My best was an As New Uberti Cattleman in 44/40 for $200 and a matching pre safety Rossi 92 lever gun in similar for $179.
1860 repro for $50 NIB and an 1858 Remington repro for the same price

1967 Savage pump gun for $150, never fired and a Winchester 1300 for $139 looked to have been never racked.

Three Norinco 1911's for under $300 per ,all in very good to like new condition, although one was well used.

Two well used but very good condition Ruger .22 pistols for under $150.

I used to go to about ten pawn shop customers each month on my pest control route that plus the fact that I drove around all day and had a lot of free time to drop into shops all over town.

I have seen more $250 Mosins than $200 Cattlemen..

Now that I don't do that type of route work anymore I don't run into those kinds of deals anymore.
Just too time consuming

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I'm sorry, do not want to be rude but...I think Zundfolge is making way too many rash generalizations about a group of people..in this case pawn brokers.

Right.

Except for newbies, brokers know their stuff at least as far as in dealing with their typical client base. They may not know all things about all guns, but they know a lot of things about all of the products they carry, loan on, and/or buy. They also know what their market will yield.

Based on growing up in the business and until after graduating college, I came to realize that there were a couple of customer trends pertaining to those customers who were not happy with us.

The first trend is that they often assumed we had virtually no cost in the items we had for sale and hence we should be willing to sell items for a fraction of the sale price because they 'knew' we were making huge profits.

The second was that many of these customers were clueless on dickering. For example, say we had a rifle priced at $500 and the price is clearly visible. Here, note that the $500 is an open offer to sell. Instead of countering that offer, quite often customers would open with, "So, what's the least you will take for it?" This is a very bad way to negotiate because the broker can be certain of what will be said by the customer after providing the customer with the broker's least price. What the customer is often trying to do is to get a new starting point, one much lower, from which to start to dicker. For example, I might tell a customer that we could take $450 for the rifle plus sales tax, cash money, today. That would then countered with, "I'll give you $350. At that point, the customer is trying to bring the final price as far down as $400. The only problem is that the broker has already stipulated the least price but the customer is trying to use it start actual dickering.

The other stupid strategy often employed is to open with a lowball offer. On the same $500 rifle, a customer might open with an offer of $250 in the hope that the agreed price is in the middle at around $375. This seems to be bred from the belief that the sale price should be half the difference of the ticket price and customer's opening offer. Here, the problem is that the opening offer from the customer will in no way determine the final negotiated price.

If you are not skilled in the art of haggling/dickering, then let me suggest a few ways to help you get a deal to close that is on your terms or closer to being on your terms, if not outright rejected.

1. Know the product and know its value based on its condition. It can be hard to get a good deal if you don't actually know the value.

2. Be prepared to walk away from the deal. In other words, don't get too excited about the product such that you pay too much for it. This means having a set limit you know you are willing to pay for that given item and if you can't get the item for your limit amount, then just walk away - no harm no foul.

3. Everybody loves cash. The influence of cash tends to be more significant at the end of a business day (just before closing), at the end of a week (weekly sales goals), at the end of a month (monthly goals), and at the end of the year (IRS inventory issues). In other words, the broker will be more likely to take less money for an item at the end of the day than at the beginning of the day/week/month/year as being early in these periods isn't as stressful on the broker to make goals since the broker still has the rest of the periods to make his quotas. A bigger ticket last minute sale of something like a gun just may be what the broker needs to make his quota or bonus and so he may be more likely to accept less for the item at that time.

4. If you don't like to dicker, then simply make the broker an all or none cash offer on the item. At this point, it is prudent to show the broker that you have the cash with you and that you are ready to hand over the cash at that moment if he will agree to the price. The reason this is critical is because brokers are told day in and day out by people after negotiating a price that they have to go get some money and they never return. A handful of Jacksons, Grants, and Franklins will go a lot further for you as eye candy to help close the deal. Of course this does not always work, but it is efficient in bypassing silly negotiations to reach a point where you would be willing to pay the amount you are offering in cash. Plus, it is a binary negotiation in that it either happens or it doesn't and either way, nobody walks away with hurt feelings, name calling, etc. If your offer is accepted, then you have gotten the item on your terms and since those are your terms, you should be pleased with the deal.

 

[rangerruck]

I have got my absolute best deals at pawn shops. My best ever was a winny 3030, that the guy was told it had a cocking/trigger prob by its former owner. ( it didn't) Its normal sale price was 100 bucks. but they had a sign up that said all guns half price. i took out my wallet, pulled out all the money in there, counted it for the guy. I said, "all i got here is 29 bucks, and it is late, there is no way I will make it to my bank and back in time." He looked for supervisor, who was not there, and said , "oh well, sold!" Tee hee , mine.

 

[hub]

great post double naught, i like a deal just like anyone else but lets be reasonable, a pawn shop gets what someone is willing to take because they need money, a buyer gets what he or she is willing to spend. i dont find it unfair to buy a $300 gun for $300 just cuz you got it for $150-$200. when going to pawn shops i go look, if i see something i like i research it, price it, check for problems, resell value, ect. then i make an offer, probably a low-low with cash, you can always take cash back to the bank if offer is not taken. i'm always willing to walk away if my predetermined max is overbid, thats how most people get in trouble at auctions and other personal sales, they seem to get in compitition with other bidders about winning. that being said i for one has low balled a price and come out ahead just because i really didnt have the money for the higher price. I had cash just not quite enough to cover the sticker price so atleast trying is worth the effort and you may even come out ahead. good luck

 

[dot 43]

I have an incident stuck in my head of the time I asked a pawn shop if they'd take bluebook value on a Steyr they had priced $200 over bluebook. I'd spent about $500.00 in transfer fees there, and had seen it sitting on a shelf for over a year, which I figured at least entitled me to a civil answer. The negative response wasn't friendly, classy, or professional. Of course, the same place had used guns marked for $20-$50 more than a new one goes for 5 miles away, which I took as an indication they'd be open to a little haggling. Turns out they were just morons more interested in being jerks than making money. My mistake. At least it didn't cost me anything, and I really didn't need a gas operated 9mm pistol. Their mistake, on the other hand, has cost them about $700.00 in transfer fees so far...

I'm not saying reasonable pawn shops aren't out there. Just saying unreasonable ones are, too.

 

[TimboKhan]

I wrote a thread some time ago about how to look for deals in a pawnshop, and while I have no idea what the link to it is or anything, if you can find it, I think I gave some good tips. Personally, I have found plenty of good deals (mixed in with plenty of other bad ones) in pawnshops, and my dad is the king of finding deals at them. In talking to folks on here, it seems as if it sort of depends on where you live as to what you will find, but at least around here, there is no shortage of deals to be found. Also, Zundfolge is not necessarily wrong when he says that pawnshop clerks know squat. When Rockstar.Esq and I worked in the pawnshop, we knew what was going on, and we priced the guns accordingly. We also knew what we were taking in, and as a result, we sold a fair amount of guns between the two of us. However, as much time as I spend around pawnshops, I do have to agree that the majority of clerks ain't got a clue. I was in a store not to long ago and the guy touted a semi-auto as having "pull-back action".

 

[iiibdsiil]

What I've always thought was that at pawn shops, the price that is on the sticker is always negotiable. I thought that was why the prices were so outrageous. If they mark the gun/radio/diamond up $200, then you offer $200 less, and feel like a champ. Or, you don't offer $300 when it is marked $700, even though on a good day the thing is worth $350. That make sense?

I've never gone in and seen something marked where it was supposed to be. The good deals happen when you negotiate the price down, and with my experience buying about $5,000 in tools, you will make out like a bandit on a lot of things, after you discuss the price.

But, I've had a ton of guys also come back with a crazy price. Just be willing to say no.

 

[redneck2]

I suspect some guys that run pawn shops are just like other guys I've run into. If you own something, it's crap. If they own the same exact thing, it's gold.

Some shops want to keep their inventory up to keep the "lookers" coming in. If you advertise guns and only have 3 on the shelf, you won't get much traffic. They've got lots of other stuff too and need floor traffic.

I bought an unfired Russian SKS for $120 OTD, and my best was an unfired Marlin 882 .22 mag laminated stock with scope and sling for $90 OTD.

As for the personnel not knowing "squat"...well, they have to know about jewlery, tools, stereos, coins, guitars, and everything else that comes in. If I worked in a pawn shop, I'd know guns fairly well but diddly about musical stuff. Everybody's got their area of knowledge.

 

[GD]

What I like about pawn shops is that they are often staffed with people who know nothing about guns. Yes, they can have high prices but I love it when they have a rare rifle for next to nothing!

 

[XavierBreath]

First............DNS, that is one of the best treatises I have read on haggling. Do you mind if I incorporate some of your thoughts with mine in a blog post in the future?

Second, I have recorded my pawn shopping secrets for all to read. Just click the link.

One of the common misconceptions in the used gun market is that there are absolute prices for used guns. The Blue Book creates this illusion. In reality though, published prices on used guns are the result of market anaysis of gun show and gun store prices across the country a year or so prior to publication of the book. They are a guide, nothing more.

Regional variances do not come into play in the Blue Book, and they are strong. Some gun show dealers simply make money buying guns in Louisiana and selling them in Arizona or vice versa. S&W revolvers are under priced in North Louisiana according to the Blue Book. Some prices are driven by a collector's market that you may not see. The Blue Book is not a negotiating tool. It will only help on guns that do not have volatile prices. This year Colt ceased making revolvers. Prices skyrocketed. The same has happened with Winchester, but not quite so dramatic. These price trends will not show up in a Blue Book for at least two or three years. To understand the price trends you have to understand the market as well as the gun. Buying a price guide will help somewhat. It will prevent you from paying to much for a gun if you are willing to walk away. Even then, you may miss a deal because you did not understand the market.

If you use the Blue Book as a negotiating tool, you will show yourself to be a neophyte. Prices are based on much more than the Blue Book, and in the end, the price is what each person decides it should be. If they agree, the item is sold. If they do not, the sale is not made. A gun is worth what a buyer will pay at the time of the sale. All else is speculation.

A seller can price his wares any way he pleases. Just because you do not buy his wares does not mean he doesn't sell them. Every day I see automobiles on the street that I know somebody paid more for than I pay for real estate. I think they are foolish and the cars are in no way worth that much. That does not mean the car did not sell and a seller did not make money. It just means I would spend the same money differently. Thus, I am not a potential customer. It does not mean the cars are not worth that amount. It just means that they are not worth that to me. If I walked into a Lexus dealership, I will be wasting the salesman's time. That doesn't mean I can't buy one. It just means we will never arrive at an agreement on price.

It is true that there are some pawn shops that may have a hard time selling guns on their shelves. Have you ever thought the owner may be hiding his personal collection from his wife by keeping it in his shop? I know of at least one pawn shop where the owner does that. I suspect there are more. Some areas will have pawn shops that are not fertile ground for deals. This is just a fact. If there are no good pawn shops in your area, try another area. Heck, I found a strip outside of Barksdale AFB that has over ten pawn shops. Some have good prices, others are way above the mark on the same gun. They are all within a mile of each other too!

Judging pawn shops as a gun buying resource based on one or two shops is like judging the used car market based on one or two dealers. You simply don't have enough data to make an informed conclusion. There are some good shops out there where good deals can be found.

Even after all that, I have not mentioned that pawn shops do not need to sell their guns to you. They make money off loans, not guns. If they tossed the guns in a box and then sold them for pennies on the dollar to a wholeseller, they would come out ahead. Some simply place the gun in the case with a high price and then list it on Gun Broker or Auction Arms. Why shouldn't they? As a financial institution, guns are simply not a pawn shop's income.

Here are a few of the deals I have found.
None of the prices were negotiated.

S&W Model of 1899---$69
S&W post-war M&P---$89
S&W Victory M&P-----$150
S&W 1911------------$489
S&W1911 with laser---$659 (I sold the laser grips for $200 later )
Colt Python-----------$600
S&W Model 67-1------$179
S&W Model 60--------$179
S&W MOdel 60-9------$250
S&W Model 10-5------$179
S&W Model 10-5------$159
Colt Woodsman, 1st Series $250
S&W Model 28-------$239
S&W Model 10-5 nickel snub $179
S&W Model 17-2------$199
Colt Diamondback------$249
S&W Model 15-3-------$199
S&W Model 19-4 nickel---$279

There have been other guns that I have passed up because they were in calibers I rarely shoot, or their condition was not what I would expect at the price asked. You can see pics of these guns as well as many I left behind at my Pawn Shop Circuit blog. You will note a Colt/S&W revolver trend in my buying. That is not by happenstance. Glocks are out there for fair prices too. I just don't look at them. If you are wanting a Walther P99 I know where one has been sitting for $450 or so. I see very few 1911s in pawn shops. If I do, they are usually gussied up, overpriced bubba nightmares.

The deals may or may not be available in your area. If they are not, that is not a reflection on pawn shops everywhere. I am looking at a S&W Model 10-5 Round butt right now that I am loath to buy at $225, because it is over $200. I'm probably nuts for that......

 

[AsianDragonPower]

nope

 

[armoredman]

The two closest pawn shops to me have prices to make you vomit. One had a beat up Mosin M44 without bayonet, for $200. The closer one only had two guns, a pair of Rossi 38's, (didn't bother with model numbers), both for $400 each.
I have never found a pawnshop deal. I did lose my only shotgun to a pawnshop, but that was my own stupidity.

 

[CajunBass]

I don't shop pawn shops because I'm not willing to play games and dicker. I don't do it at gun shops either. I figure if you put a price on something that is what you want to get for it. If it's a price I'm willing to pay, I'll buy it. If I don't want to pay it, I'll keep looking.

Most pawn shop guns I've seen, seem to be priced about the same as NIB, although they are marked as used. Well thank you for your time.

 

[cgraham]

Excellent post and blog articles on pawn and gun show shoping, XavierBreath: anyone interested in this thread should read them!

It would be nice if you could write something similar on on-line sources such as GunsAmerica and Gunbroker. I particularly don't understand the Gunbroker psychology, where weapons are often started way too high.

I always do a reality check on current model new guns at Budsgunshop.com, who seems to have the lowest price anywhere in most cases. Maybe there are other great sites for such comparisons. It's embarassing to buy a used gun, then discover you could have had it new for substantially less.

I wanted to make a comment on the "If you buy it TODAY you can have it for for $xxx" ploy. I understand where the seller is coming from, but I don't want a rushed decision, and I figure that if he will sell it for $xxx today, there is absolutely no reason he won't sell it for the same or less tomorrow.

C

 

[DWARREN123]

The ones I have seen/dealt with are way over priced, will not deal and want MSRP for a new firearm. That's just me.

 

[possum]

rangerruck,
that was a heck of a deal on that 30-30. lucky dog!

 

[Jeff F]

I live in the Reno Nv area. Lots of pawn shops. I've been to quit a few and will say they have like new prices an most everything in their shops. Guns, well you can buy some cheaper new then the prices they have. The prices can be talked down. I think they price used goods at least double what they paid for them. I've never had to pawn anything so I can't speak from experience but I have a friend that needed money and pawned a 10000 dollar diamond dinner ring. The best she could get for it was 1500.