Gun show find.

[mushu]

sweet smith!!!!

 

[Gary W. Strange]

I know this is an older post and kinda a different subject.
About 15 years a go I was at an out of state gun-show. I came across a table that had what looked like a new in the box Colt Targetsman, with all the papers and he was only asking $250.00 plus tax. Being out of state, I could not buy a handgun. I begged and pleaded with him to sell it to me. I showed him my concealed carry license and explained there was nothing to stop me from buying it except I was out of state. I even ask if he would ship it to a ffl in my state. He would not. I noticed this whole time an older gentleman was standing, listening. disappointed, I gave up. I stepped back and looked at other things. I seen the old man step up and tell the man he wanted that Colt Targetsman. I felt even more disappointment then. I thought it was gone for good, so I just walked on with my heart in my shoe. The gentleman completed the purchase and by that time I was a few tables down and he walked up to me and said “son, I seen how badly you wanted this pistol and if you will give me my money back you can have it.” I whipped out my money in a heartbeat and paid him, even offered him extra and assured him I was legal to buy firearms, except for being out of state. He said “ I heard and seen your conversation and know that, he couldn’t sell to you because he is an ffl dealer, I am not and I can sell it to you. He took my money and I took the pistol, I never even knew his name. It just made makes my day to know there are people that would do that. I guess it could be considered a straw purchase but I cannot see it that way because he was legal to buy it and sold it to me in a legal way.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

I went to this show last year and, like most gun shows, it was filled with dodgy dealers, thieves-in-training, and hustlers. I had an unfired 1978 6" nickel-plated Python with original cardboard box, styrofoam liner and papers that I wanted to sell. I watched one fellow wwith two tables and a nice collection of Colt's sell an identical Python, possibly also unfired, without box, for $4,000 (my going into it price for mine was $3,600 so I felt my number was valid). I approached him and asked if he was interested in mine...he offered me $1,750. When I questioned this, he told me that he was a dealer and only bought at wholesale. He was pleasant enough but clearly only interested in buying cheap. This was repeated, with minor variations in hustler impressions of "wholesale price", by more than fifteen sellers with tables of Colt's revolvers.

I have also attended the Tanner Gun Shows in Denver a few times and found most of the tables populated by hustlers, liars, and thieves. As an example, one goofus peddling M1 Garands, claimed a rifle in an unmarked, seemingly new, wood stock with non-matching handguards, with a Winchester receiver, a 1951 Springfield Armory barrel and a Springfield bolt was a "CMP Correct, Collector Grade". He wanted just under $3,000 for it. He had a potential buyer lapping it up who left to ask his wife for permission to buy it. Many other sellers were misrepresenting their guns or selling questionable goods at ridiculous prices.

My conclusion...if you go to gun shows, you'd better really know guns, have access to "Blue Book of Gun Values" on-line on your mobile device, have specific guns in mind when you go, and believe next to nothing of what sellers tell you. The biggest problem is not being able to fully check the operating condition of guns and, for guns like Milsurps, for parts you can't see on casual inspection. I have worked in the used gun department of a major retailer and also have some collecting and gunsmithing experience so I feel at least minimally qualified to inspect and evaluate guns. I also have an excellent relationship with two superb gunsmiths I can ask for advice and inspections when I need them. I no longer waste my time going to gun shows.

PS-I sold my Python in January for $3,100 in a private sale through a LGS with which I often do business to get a fully legal transfer with CBI and NICS background checks for the buyer. This was a nice deal for both me and the buyer, the definition of a good deal.

 

[Gary W. Strange]

I went to this show last year and, like most gun shows, it was filled with dodgy dealers, thieves-in-training, and hustlers. I had an unfired 1978 6" nickel-plated Python with original cardboard box, styrofoam liner and papers that I wanted to sell. I watched one fellow wwith two tables and a nice collection of Colt's sell an identical Python, possibly also unfired, without box, for $4,000 (my going into it price for mine was $3,600 so I felt my number was valid). I approached him and asked if he was interested in mine...he offered me $1,750. When I questioned this, he told me that he was a dealer and only bought at wholesale. He was pleasant enough but clearly only interested in buying cheap. This was repeated, with minor variations in hustler impressions of "wholesale price", by more than fifteen sellers with tables of Colt's revolvers.

I have also attended the Tanner Gun Shows in Denver a few times and found most of the tables populated by hustlers, liars, and thieves. As an example, one goofus peddling M1 Garands, claimed a rifle in an unmarked, seemingly new, wood stock with non-matching handguards, with a Winchester receiver, a 1951 Springfield Armory barrel and a Springfield bolt was a "CMP Correct, Collector Grade". He wanted just under $3,000 for it. He had a potential buyer lapping it up who left to ask his wife for permission to buy it. Many other sellers were misrepresenting their guns or selling questionable goods at ridiculous prices.

My conclusion...if you go to gun shows, you'd better really know guns, have access to "Blue Book of Gun Values" on-line on your mobile device, have specific guns in mind when you go, and believe next to nothing of what sellers tell you. The biggest problem is not being able to fully check the operating condition of guns and, for guns like Milsurps, for parts you can't see on casual inspection. I have worked in the used gun department of a major retailer and also have some collecting and gunsmithing experience so I feel at least minimally qualified to inspect and evaluate guns. I also have an excellent relationship with two superb gunsmiths I can ask for advice and inspections when I need them. I no longer waste my time going to gun shows.

PS-I sold my Python in January for $3,100 in a private sale through a LGS with which I often do business to get a fully legal transfer with CBI and NICS background checks for the buyer. This was a nice deal for both me and the buyer, the definition of a good deal.

I do have gun collecting experience, having a collection of firearms of well over 100, also i have gun smithing experience. I have owned and collected firearm sence i was preteen. Being well in my 50's now and a mechanical engineer. I am a good judge of firearms of all types. I have built an all correct M1 Garand with all correct parts, except for the barrel, an a 1943 Springfield reciever, with all Springfield parts from that time period. So I do know a bit about firearms. I have not regretted my purchase of the Colt Targetsman to this day.
I do hate to hear gun shows in your area are filled with swindlers and crooks. In my part of the world, there are some like that but they stick out like a sore peckker. All but the unknowing stay clear of them. The city and surrounding cities that have gun shows in my area are mostly honest people. People that don't know how to spot a reblue or a Frankenstein\ marriage gun, can get took. The M1s, Lugers, military 1911's, old Winchesters and Colt single actions come to mind, because there are gunsmiths now that can do rebuilds, that will pass as factory. An honest seller will tell you up front it is a restored firearm. I bought a Winchester model 12, 16 gauge, made in 1953. It was used, not abused in anyway. The stock was not beat up at all but the bluing on the bottom of the receiver and where the barrel and receiver attach up was gone. I sent it off and had it restored to new condition. Restoration doesn't hurt model 12's much at retail because there are so many field grades out there but people will take a field and add the markings and embellishments to make it into something that is rare in that model. People buy such as that and get it lettered and find out they have a dud. Letters are even being faked now, so one from a seller doesn't mean much either. I, myself would not even sell the field grade gun I have as an original factory finish gun. A person that collects anything, be it firearms, coins, pocket watches, clocks or what ever, and I dabble in all of those, would be wise to research, study up and be knowledgeable on the subject.
There are honest people out there and there are swindlers and crooks. The later make it hard on the honest and give gun shows and the like a bad name. If a person does their homework they can spot a fake and if one is just not sure, a legit dealer will be more than willing to let you have it checked by a true expert.
So from my firsthand knowledge of firearms, Colts in particular, I know I got a good deal on A fine Colt .22 auto, not often seen in that condition. I fell sure enough of it, that I would let a true expert check it over and would not sell it to you or anyone else, even close to what I paid for it. A fool and his money are soon parted, A wise man adds dollars on the pennies he spends. And as always one who calls or says a person they know nothing about is not knowing of a subject, usually finds out they are not as all knowing as he thinks he is. In other words, stay in your lane and I will stay in mine. Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

I know this is an older post and kinda a different subject.
About 15 years a go I was at an out of state gun-show. I came across a table that had what looked like a new in the box Colt Targetsman, with all the papers and he was only asking $250.00 plus tax. Being out of state, I could not buy a handgun. I begged and pleaded with him to sell it to me. I showed him my concealed carry license and explained there was nothing to stop me from buying it except I was out of state. I even ask if he would ship it to a ffl in my state. He would not. I noticed this whole time an older gentleman was standing, listening. disappointed, I gave up. I stepped back and looked at other things. I seen the old man step up and tell the man he wanted that Colt Targetsman. I felt even more disappointment then. I thought it was gone for good, so I just walked on with my heart in my shoe. The gentleman completed the purchase and by that time I was a few tables down and he walked up to me and said “son, I seen how badly you wanted this pistol and if you will give me my money back you can have it.” I whipped out my money in a heartbeat and paid him, even offered him extra and assured him I was legal to buy firearms, except for being out of state. He said “ I heard and seen your conversation and know that, he couldn’t sell to you because he is an ffl dealer, I am not and I can sell it to you. He took my money and I took the pistol, I never even knew his name. It just made makes my day to know there are people that would do that. I guess it could be considered a straw purchase but I cannot see it that way because he was legal to buy it and sold it to me in a legal way.

In CO, both CBI and BATFE would have called it a straw purchase, the federal penalty for which can be as much as a ten-year sentence and $250,000 fine. Your new friend may have meant well, and you could have a CCW permit and be fully qualified except for being a non-state resident but it was a straw purchase nonetheless. Fortunately for you it did not turn out badly. I hope you don't feel I stepped in your lane. Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[Gary W. Strange]

A true straw purchase takes place when a firearm is purchased by someone, that is can legally purchase a firearm for another person that can not legally purchase a firearm because of felony convictions or other reasons, after being ask to by the person that is not legal to buy a firearm. It is an act known and agreed to by both parties. A ffl dealer can not take part in or arrange a straw purchase or be knowledgeable of the act. By this gentleman doing this and buying this firearm unknowingly to me and then selling it to me that will qualify as a private transaction between two individuals. If I had ask him to purchase it for me or he had offered to purchase it and I had excepted his offer. It would be considered a straw purchase. I worried about it afterwards and checked on it and what law says.It specifics it is a known act between both parties. I have sense gotten my curio and relic ffl and I have studied on this very subject. So also you should check you facts before you accuse someone of a criminal act.