Gun Show Reflection

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KCFirepower

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Kansas
I just got back from attending the KCI Expo Gun show here in Kansas City. I was, quite frankly, appalled.
The prices at the show were BEYOND ridiculous. Here are some examples:

Mismatched stock, run-of-the-mill surplus M1 Garand=$800+
(I bought one a little over a year ago for $300 less)

Colt Hunstman=$775
(I bought one last year for over $200 less)

Turkish mausers=$200 and up

AK/WASR, any type=none under $500

Ishapore Enfields=$275-325

Are dealers doing this all over the US??
Why is most of the show jewelry and beef jerky?

I went to the last show in Overland Park with similar results. Is this my region, or have firearms recently experienced an inflationary bubble nationwide?
I'm cool with buying stuff for a fair price, but it seems the dealers all wanted to make an additional 1/3-1/2 price mark-up. What ever happened to retail being about 10% over dealer?
 
I was a little disappointed by this show as well.

Usually the December show is one of the better shows of the year. I think there were plenty of deals to be had though. It just goes in cycles (and never lines up with what you are looking for) :)
 
I went to my last gunshow about a year ago in Eau Claire WI. Prices were far too high for anything I was interested in, many higher than MSRP. There were some fair prices, but I would say more than half of dealers were high in price and it showed when I went back at the end of the weekend and not much had moved from their tables.

I used to think it was fun to go, now it's just a hassle and I know there's better deals anywhere online or a couple of the local places that price with minimal markups.
 
you go to a gunshow time after time and what do you see????? The same thing like you see at some gunshops. gunshows arent what they use to be. There are times where you can sell stuff and make a little extra sometimes but,buying at a gunshow well,that is a different story. I use to set up at some shows long time ago but,no more. I don't even go to one no more either. Table rent is stupidly to high,entry fees are the same at major shows around the country but,it's thepeoples who run the halls that have the say on how much hall rent the show groups have to pay the hall and for tables also.
 
Same in WA.

I haven't bought a firearm at a gunshow in years, until I met a guy on here and went to a couple of shows with him when he moved out here. He must be good luck, because two shows in a row I got great deals. An excellent Smith 649 for $450, and an excellent 1006 with box and everything in the box is new and untouched --$680. That price is about average, but the pistol is a little above average and I REALLY wanted one.

But for the last seven years I haven't bought a thing. All WAY overpriced. I know what you mean about the trinkets and junk. Our gunshow limits that stuff, but they used to not allow it I think --but the venue got larger so they had room for the junk. It also helps to get the wifey to come along. My wife likes this one guy that hand maked wood pens. He does a great job, but he's got to be 100 and I don't know how long he'll last and I still would like a couple of more of his pens...

Back to arms. I saw 1006 mags for almost $50 (and he wasn't coming down one cent) AK's for like you said, Oly AR's, lots of them because Oly is just down the street, $1000 at least. They sell a lot of that junk too.

No real quality items, not by and large. You'll find tons of rail systems for AR's but they are all cheap ones marked up. No KAC stuff, they'd have to ask $600 by their reasoning and I think that would tip off the fools. The dealers are really there to sell to newbies, folks that REALLY want it, impulse buyers, etc. So you end up with a few way over priced quality pieces and tons of over priced junk.

Only the non-dealers have anything decently priced. They reason they have to sell it or that $40 table rent is down the drain, along with the day. The gunshows are always the same people with the same stuff. I should also mention the 649 and 1006 were both ftf deals, no paperwork. Probably why they were priced normally.

I renewed my card this year, didn't plan on it but I did. I probably will drop out of the shows in 2013 though, not worth the membership, gas and time to walk around a crowded flea market. I'd be better off checking my favorite shops and going online --Gunbroker rocks BUT you have to buy from dealers with high scores if it is something expensive, and I don't buy used sight unseen.

Oh yeah, also should mention that on a local forum here, one guy went to the show JUST to get some ammo from a dealer he frequented --said he wanted to check out the show, actually drove past the store to go there. When he found the table, they had the ammo but for way extra than the store price. When he asked if they would sell it to him for what the store sells, they said no way, they had to pay for the table and time to get there. Whatever. They were also getting way more traffic than they ever would at their out of the way, hidden behind Tactical Tailor shop in run down Tillicum WA. They lost a lot of customers over that and a couple of other problems, like selling junk ammo --"recalled" ammo, however you recall ammo. If you wonder where bad ammo goes, it goes to that store. Also sold AR bolts that broke after 500 rounds, said it was "common" for some to fail at that point, but that they'd be nice and replace it. I'm afraid to go there for safety's sake.

I roll my own ammo now, and I vet my shops. I won't deal with these stores that try to take advantage of others. There is one down the street, don't know how they stay in business, when you go in there there is just junk everywhere, just thrown around. The displays are screwed up. The weapons don't sell and dust is everywhere. They've had a Browning Rennaisance in there for five years and I can't get them to budge one cent. They are so greedy they've ran off their customers, but for some reason they stay in business and employ three people --who do not clean the store.

How do places like this stay in business? Why do people keep going to gunshows? I remember back in the '90's that gunshows had some great deals. Like a 1911 series 70 with a full length Bomar sight --$600! $200 AK74's. The AR's were all good prices. The only high prices were the AWB items, like $120 G21 mags.

Sheesh.
 
I feel that the good deals have gone the way of the old west gunslinger for the most part. I go for that de-lish jerky and some primers if the price is reasonable. It is also fun to watch the masses file through the hall and listen to the self proclaimed know-it-alls administer themselves a dose of foot in mouth disease. I feel it is really cheap entertainment for the days price of admission it's lots better than going to a movie IMHO.:D
 
I have a feeling that the majority of gun show attendees would not/have never set foot in a gun shop, and don't have any idea what stuff is actually worth. Maybe they're shy about going into a gun shop, or feel that at a show they can "comparison shop" without pressure, and with anonymity.

In a place like Overland Park, KS, it's pretty much a given that most folks have more money than sense or taste.

As to KCFirepower's notion that retail should be 10% over dealer cost, I don't know about the gun biz, but in most retail businesses the markup is a keystone, i.e. 100% over wholesale. Out of that markup comes rent (whether for a storefront or a booth/table at a show), utilities, advertising, licensing, insurance, storage, bad checks/chargebacks and everything else that constitutes "overhead". After all that, whatever is left is net profit.

I don't know what kind of business can survive on a 10% markup (except maybe internet-based businesses who have almost zero overhead). If you believe businesses that claim they only mark up by 10%, you probably also believe those car dealers who claim to sell their cars for "$50 over invoice".

Take it from an old "show pro": from a vendor's point of view, attendees at gun shows are notorious cheapskates. This is generally not true of the attendees at hunting & fishing or "sportsmen's" expos, even though there's a good bit of crossover.
 
So nobody has anything good to say about shows anymore? That is sad. Best gunshow I went to was with my dad in AL around '85-'86. Next best was Nashville or Memphis in mid '90's. Not only did they sell stuff, but it was also a SHOW. Military even had tables (not to sell, but they did let you handle stuff).

I think what is happening is the old timers are kicking off, retiring, whatever, and along with them went the integrity and love of the game. Just full of greedbags.

Oh yeah, in WA, even had this one guy sell me counterfeit FAL mags. Sold Korean ones as new in wrap Austrians. Because he had a bunch of real Austrians I bought around ten. Got home and found those "new Austrians" wouldn't fit a DSA (but I suppose if they do fit, they aren't all that bad if you get 'em cheap --and if they work, they do look like they do).

Went back the next day and confronted him. He shows me how they work fine in his rifle --he had to jam it in there though. He was still convinced they were Austrian. I got him to refund the money, but I went ahead and bought the rest of his used Austrians. I figured he'll figure it out when he gets home.

A year later, I see the same guy selling new Austrians, but this time no used Austrians or IMI's. At this point, he has to know they are Korean. Then a guy walked up and had the EXACT same problem I did, and the guy did the EXACT same demonstration, jamming it in. He told the guy they needed "break in" and that after some use they'd slide right in.

What he did to me was bait and switch. What he did to the other fellow was false advertising. Because at this point, after I've TOLD him they are Korean, there is no way he thinks otherwise. Just a flea market full of scam artists.

And to you dealers out there that run these tables, be it known I collect business cards from the greedy tables so I know which stores to avoid. Be greedy at your own expense --that newbie won't stay a newbie, that first time buyer might be a last time buyer, and you've lost lifetime gun nuts like me.

I've also seen many of the most greedy have their stores markedly go downhill over the years, while a few new ones have popped up, and some like Rainier Arms (they deserve mentioning) have a showroom instead of a shop! And normal prices to boot, they compete with Bravo Company USA --imagine going into a local shop and getting internet prices. Amazing.

Didn't see them at the gunshow, they might have been there, and if not they should. They'd bankrupt the other AR dealers and force the prices down or force them out, all they need is a banner saying "AR's for fair prices!"
 
I was at the same show today and agree with you but also disagree with you....there was some things that had good prices. I picked up a pretty nice nylon 66 for $300....not a great deal but a fair deal. There was also a pretty nice challenger for what I thought was a pretty good price.....but I do agree some of it was WAY out of line.
 
I would like to know what retail business you are in, I worked at Cabelas for a few years out in KCK and I can say the margins on hard line (firearms, archery, fishing...) is under 5%...on used stuff it is much more. On the soft line (clothes and such) it can be over 100%....and there is stuff in that store every day that is a loss leader....sells for under cost.

My wife worked for a now dead book store for over 25 years and I can tell you that every book on the NY best sellers list is sold under cost....as well as a great deal other things in the store. And it is not just her dead company that sold like that but the living ones as well.
 
I am glad gunshows still exist.

I am glad firearms are still offered for sale at a gunshow. I can bargain for something I like. No one is forcing me to buy. There is still some free market influence there.

I see some interesting guns for sale at gunshows. I may have no desire to own them at any price, but I can enjoy looking at them.

I am glad we live in a country and have opportunities where I can buy military manuals on survival, bombs, etc if I want them.

I am glad I can find a place to buy politically incorrect tee shirts.

I am glad there is a place I can take a junker gun and maybe find a sucker who wants to buy it from me.

I am glad they sell stuff besides guns because sometimes my wife wants to go along and look at that other stuff, and, lucky me, I still enjoy being with her.

....anyone want to add to the list...?
 
Ditto. I went to the show in Reno, NV today. Just happened to be in the area and thought I'd stop in. It just seemed sad, dingy, and loaded with random dusty trinkets. Pricey too. I'm not an expert on prices on too many handguns, but those that I did know seemed quite high, and I asked the price to purchase a magazine for one that I own and it was 20% more than I usually pay.
I will also add that the place seemed to be inhabited by an unusual array of individuals. Like the people behind the tables were beamed in from that dusty gunshop mentioned above. Not necessarily giving the supporters a good name.
B
 
theres alot of crooks out there bu a few honest guys are still around. Last gun show i went too i was about o pick up one of those California legal arsenals(only difference was the barrel wasnt threaded and it didnt have a muzzle device) for about $750.

Not a great deal but a fair one
 
I see threads like this all the time.

Not every single time, but well more often than not, I find something that (if I had the money in my pocket) I would buy.
Might be a $1000 AR10, might be a $200 Dillon reloading press...might be a $400 N-frame in decent shape.

Most times, I look, talk and then walk on by, shaking my head. Once in a while, I have the cash available. Then I talk, buy, and walk away smiling.

I have been to gun shows in CT, FL, TN, WI, IL, CA, and TX. I have occasionally been disappointed, but never disgusted.

I believe that either you are not looking hard enough, or your expectations are unrealistic.

Doesn't hurt me a bit either way.
 
iv been going to gunshows in my area for the last 15 years, i dont think i ever have seen a numbers matching enfield.

as far as deals go the last gunshow i went to a seller had a last ditch type 14 nambu (buried between modern pistols) tagged for 550$ not sure what they normaly go for but seemed like a good pre-Negotiation starting price.
 
I don't go to gun shows but given the feedback on the forums one would think the vendors would take the hint.
 
The Eastman shows in North Georgia are Bad, Bad, Bad.
Ditto everything said above.

The best show I ever been to and I am going to try to make the trip at least once in 2012 is the Indy 1500 in Indianapolis. Cant wait. This one is still a classic even with a $9 cover charge.
 
my .02 from knoxville tn

we have about 1 show a month on average, and me and a group of guys do attend the every month. we have seen the rise and fall of ar15 prices and the rise of ak 47 prices over night around these parts too.


1 ar15's 799.00 new 700.00 build
2 ak47 799.99!!!!!!
3 found a mosin 91/30 for 299.99
4 1911's have dropped on average 100-250 dollars
5 reloading suplise getting cheaper 1000 45 acp rn plated for 95.00
6 beef jerky prices are WAY and i mean WAY out of hand!
7 10.00 to get in,4.00 for a coke, 7.00 for a cheese burger!!!
8. found 45 acp blazer brass ammo for 15.99 a box, average price was 23.99

thats all i can recall, i cant complain to much though. everyshow around here has good and bad but they call all be good if you remember one thing!

"gun shows are like strip clubs. you get to see allot , touch a little and seldom does anything come home with you!"
-----a thr member
 
Gun shows have really changed. Back in the 70's for example, most everyone at a gun show around here was a private seller. That was originally what gun shows were organized for. Now, they are just extensions of the gun shops and it's rare to see a private seller with any guns to speak of...
 
Just went today.

$100+ 91/30s.
7.62x54R spam cans = $100+
PA-63 = $250

Only reason I could see going back is to try and get rid of an SKS and buy another Yugo version.
 
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