Gun Specific Question about 9mm 115 gn XTP

[Husker_Fan]

I am going to start reloading for 9mm for a Charles Daly hi-power. I'll be using W231 (not the best for this, but it's what I have to start with since I use it a lot for .38 spl). The manuals give COAL of 1.075 up to 1.125 and charge weights of 4.1 to 5.2 grains, depending on the source.

Does anyone have experience of what COAL works best in these guns and if there is a lower threshold I should be aware of with this powder to get reliable cycling?

I don't get to the range often and would like to minimize experimentation for reliability and avoid having a lot of various loads to try, so a starting point would be very appreciated.

This might not matter much, but this is my first time reloading for a semi-auto.

 

[Walkalong]

I would load them to factory O.A.L.. I am sure someone here knows what that is. If that runs 100%, I'd call it good.

 

[Husker_Fan]

Thanks. Hopefully someone can let me know what it is. I don't have any factory rounds loaded with XTPs.

 

[rcmodel]

Take the barrel out and use it as a cartridge guage at the bench.

The XTP is sort of a truncated cone ogive design, and you may have to seat short enough to keep it from running into the rifling leade before it can fully chamber in the Charles Daly barrel if it is throated for FMJ-RN military bullets.

The Hornady #6 manual says:
9mm 115 XTP - OAL of 1.075"
W-231 Start load = 4.1 grains for 1,000 FPS.
Max load = 4.7 grains for 1,100 FPS.

rc

 

[Husker_Fan]

Thanks RC. That's the data I have. I'll give the barrel technique a try.

 

[Husker_Fan]

BTW rcmodel, I figure you are the guy to ask this. What is your preference for lead 9mm? 115 or 124/125 grain lrn?

 

[rcmodel]

Well, I'm certainly not the best guy to ask.

I never have shot much 9mm lead.
Lots of revolver lead in every caliber, & lots of .45 ACP lead, but pretty much jacketed 9mm for whatever reason. One being, I never did own but one S&W 9mm for 30 years, and I didn't shoot it very much. Still only have it and a SIG 9mm out of 25+ handguns.

It does seem to me that the best Lyman mold designs are going to be closer to 125 then 115 though.

rc

 

[Husker_Fan]

Time to look like an idiot.

I set the oal to 1.075 and it chambered just like the WWB fmj I had. Thank you.

Unfortunately, I have a problem. Out of 50 rounds, I had four malfunctions. Two failures to feed the next round while ejecting the spent round, one "stovepipe" that was flipped almost 180 degrees, and once the slide failed to lock back on the last round.

The gun runs 100% on WWB. My guess is that the rounds I loaded are a bit weak. In three of the cases, strong enough to eject the spent rounds bu not to send the slide back enough to strip the next round off the mag (or engage the slide stop as the case may be). In the other, the round wasn't strong enough to eject the spent round.

These rounds felt less "snappy" than the WWB I fired at the same session. These rounds were 115 XTPs over 4.4 grains of W231 and the crimp was the same as on the factor fmj.

What do you guys think? Should I up the charge? Seat the bullet shallower and use the Hodgdon data? Or am I completely off base?

This is around the middle of the range of Hornady's data for XTPs that RC put above, but below Hodgdon's published data for Gold Dots (4.7-5.1 grains W231).

 

[rcmodel]

All of your malfunctions are too light a load related.
Up the powder charge to 4.7, which is Hodgdons start load with a 115 Gold Dot.

Don't change the seating depth if the gun otherwise feeds O.K, and the bullet is not in contact with the rifling when you did the barrel chamber check.

Hornady data is almost always light in the shorts, for me at least.

rc

 

[Husker_Fan]

Thanks RC. This is my first foray into semi-auto reloading and I appreciate the help. It's good to see I was on the right track.

 

[Walkalong]

My guess is that the rounds I loaded are a bit weak.

Yep. Like rcmodel posted, all your feed symptoms say weak load.

 

[Husker_Fan]

Hate to just bump the thread, but I want to say "thanks." Loaded up 50 115gn XTPs with 4.7 ww231 and all was well. The rounds functioned flawlessly, event if my shooting wasn't. The very subjective "feel" was almost identical to that of the WWB 115 FMJ that I shot at the same time.

Thanks, again, rcmodel and Walkalong.

 

[rfwobbly]

Some thoughts....

• Some chambers do not like the listed OALs for the XTP and other FP bullets that bring the .355 diameter well in front of the case mouth. You can easily test your length by twisting your cartridge in the chamber of the disassembled barrel. If the round turns freely, then it must be the case contacting the end of the chamber. Adding black ink marker to the bullet's nose will show any signs of rifling contact after a cartridge twisting session.

• Most modern 9mm guns like the 124gr best.

• Actually W231 (aka HP-38) is one of the better 9mm powders. It should work well for you.

 

[Husker_Fan]

Hate to bump an old thread, but here goes. I've shot a quite a few of these XTPs and plated RN through my hi-power. Not particularly stiff, but very reliable.

I figured it was about time to change the recoil spring, and after reading, went with a Wolff 18.5 lb with an increased power firing pin spring. Swapped springs and now the cycle problems are back.

Does anyone have a suggestion? I'm up near the edge of Hodgon's range for the XTP with W231 and it is too light to cycle with the stronger spring.

Any other hi-power shooters out there who use this bullet, powder and recoil spring?

 

[murf]

unless you replaced the stock springs for a specific reason, i would put the stock springs back in and shoot the weapon.

murf

 

[Husker_Fan]

I changed the spring because I had shot about 600 rounds through the gun and I bought it used. It's probably between 1000-1500 total. I went with the heavier spring because it is supposed to work with factory ammo, but reduce frame battering.

I'll swap back to the original and likely pick up a replacement 17 lb spring.

It just seems weird to me that I am getting close to a max charge but not cycling the gun with a spring that a lot of hi power users use.

 

[LiveLife]

What is your preference for lead 9mm? 115 or 124/125 grain lrn?

I prefer 124/125 gr lead bullets over 115 gr because I can use mid-high range load data with the heavier 124/125 gr bullets and reliably cycle the slides of even stiff recoil springs of Glocks (G22/G27 with Lone Wolfe barrels).

With lighter 115 gr bullets, I found that I need to push them near max to get reliable slide cycling, not my cup of tea, as I prefer to have some "head room" buffer.

With near max loads, you'll also contend with more leading issues.

 

[gamestalker]

231 is a good powder but switching to something maybe a little slower buring might provide enough sustained operating gases to solve your problem. I load with either Longshot or HS6 for 115 gr. JHP and 124 gr. JHP. W231 at even it's max charge is operating at 28,000 ish.
115 gr. XTP HP
5.0 - 6.0 grs. of Longshot (29,000 - 32,300) 1131 fps - 1203 fps
6.7 grs - 7.0 grs. of HS6 1171 fps - 1234 fps

124 gr. XTP
HS6 6.4 - 6.8 grs. 1131 fps - 1169 fps
Longshot 4.7 grs. - 5.7 grs. 1022 fps - 1162 fps

I've been using that data for a long time and have never had a single problem of any type. The data is stout, but the data is all SAMMI spec.. I personally load in the max. or near max end of the data and feel very confortable shooting them.