Gun type in a SD shooting

[TMann]

My apologies if this question has been asked before...

If one were to ever involved in a SD shooting, would it matter to a jury/judge what type of gun you had used? For example, would it change anyone's impression of your actions, if you were using a revolver vs. a hi-cap semi-auto? Or a hunting-style shotgun vs. an AR or an AK rifle?

Obviously, the implication of my question is whether it is of any benefit to carry a "friendly"-looking gun, vs. a "tactical-military"-looking gun.

Just curious if anyone had any thoughts on this...

TMann

 

[Fisherman_48768]

Legally it probably wouldn't make much difference. However,the prosecutors perception of intent would weigh against using a "tactical-military style". Ultimately the judge/jury would have to determine the outcome based on how the arguments were presented. Same argument could be made for high capacity large caliber handguns vs using a 22 short single shot. Both would work but which would be perceived as the most likely to cause death rather than just stop a threat?

Ultimately you have to decide which you are most comfortable with, most proficient with and able to articulate a reason for using.

 

[Jimmie]

Any prosecutor bound and determined to paint you as evil is going to spin whatever you have as the wrong choice. If the DA is on your side, you'll never have to worry about more than a grand jury at worst, so it won't matter what you were carrying, as long as it was legal.

If you do happen upon the former and you're carrying a 15 round magazine? You were itching to go on a killing spree with your automatic assault pistol. Hollowpoints? You wanted to inflict maximum damage to someone with your cop killer bullets. FMJ? You endangered society with your specially coated bullets, designed to zip through body armor like a hot knife through butter. You went to Gunsite, Blackwater, or Thunder Ranch once every two years? God help you.

Carry what you shoot best. Spend your energy electing officials that will appoint like-minded DAs and prosecutors.

 

[inkhead]

If the prosecutor is planning to bring you up on manslaughter charges (this means he really believes you shot someone on purpose and not for self defense) a large portion of his argument will probably go to the weapon you used especially if you had a choice.

You need a good attorney.

Remember you were scared ****less, and were sure you were going to die, and you were terrified, and shot... generally.

Hopefully most cases get dismissed but if the prosecutor brings it to trial (which hopefully never happens) you will be better off with a pea-shooter than "I fired 3 rounds from my AK-47"

In most states the right to use deadly force is considered something you are only SUPPOSED to do as a last resort. If you had an possible way to do something else, wound the attacker, as opposed to killing him I'd go for that. But DO NOT sit around think about this should the situation arise. Also if you claim "I saw him pulling a gun, or he had a gun!!!" this helps your case for a fatality. Especially if you killed a person with a firearm I doubt your case will go to trial.

 

[revjen45]

You have to survive the encounter before you need to worry about the legal consequences. That said, I'm sure using a Serbu 3-shot pump could be used to make you look like a sociopath.

 

[Bezoar]

Juries and judges have their own prejudices against guns and gun types. Just pray that you used something or collect the gun that sya, juror number 5 was taught to shoot with by grampa.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Sir I would have used my .300 weatherby hunting rifle but I thought that would be grossly overkill and endanger my neighbors so I grabbed the poodle-shooter!

 

[inkhead]

If you ever arrive at this situation, I have it on on advice from a retired police detective that it never hurts to fire a few extra rounds quickly in the direction of the suspect, while you might be more than capable of one shot to take down a person it shows that you are intelligent with firearms, and puts you in another league.

When LE arrives on the site you should be shaking and broken up, and angry that some ******* made you shoot him. You were terrified and were sure you were going to die. You should mostly be angry that some jerk-off forced you to use a firearm.

Talking to a this detective he said it's very common in what he considers good shoots for people to over-cry (he thought they would fake) for more sympathy. He claims the most normal reaction to killing someone in your home, is a small bit of tears and indignant anger that you had to kill someone because they wouldn't get out.

 

[ArmedBear]

So I guess you shouldn't ask if you can keep the head?

 

[Megistopoda]

I think you've been given pretty good advice. My comments:

1) If forced to, fire your weapon to stop the threat. Do not shoot to kill, although death of the perp is a likely outcome of stopping them. Double-tap center mass; assess effect, double tap again if necessary. Your intention is to immobilize the threat, not to kill the perp.

2) I think that any reasonably common firearm (shotgun or handgun in more densely populated areas; either one or rifle in less dense areas) should be fine. If you live in a crowded apartment complex in Chicago or Cleveland, for example, it's just common sense that you don't pull out a Garand loaded with AP ammunition. Use your brain.

3) It's been recommended not to use your own handloads, but rather, good quality self-defense factory-loaded ammunition, or even whatever local law enforcement uses. If you know some police, ask what they use, and get that. It's reasonable for you to tell a jury that you simply used what the local PD uses because you figured they knew best. Personally, I use Win Ranger or Speer Gold Dot ammunition, because it's what my police friends use. Police friends can also serve as character or other witnesses if you know them well enough.

4) Even with castle doctrine laws, you should feel reasonably threatened for your safety or the safety of others. None of this "I saw some guy poking around by my back fence, so I lit him up." That's downright foolishness and will probably/justifiably land you in serious trouble. When I lived in TX, a guy tried to break into my garage. I was on the inside of my fence, handgun and light ready. He was outside the fence, in front of the garage door, trying to open it. I spoke to him gruffly - he stammered and then ran away. I might have been within legal means to shoot him, but I didn't feel physically threatened, and he had not begun to steal my property. I used my brain, assessed the situation as quickly and reasonably as I could, and it turned out OK.

Seems like the really weird stories are hit and miss, case by case, and relatively rare. The stories where some self-defense shooter is raked over the coals for all kinds of non-sense like having too "tactical" of gear, or too "deadly" of ammunition, or too light a trigger, or too large a magazine, or too many rounds fired, or too few, or rounds placed with too much precision, etc., etc. Don't sweat that stuff. Reasonable self defense is common sense, and it makes sense to most reasonable people.

I will conclude with a story. If you are not yet aware of this, Cook county Illinois (which in part is comprised of Chicago) is not the most firearm-friendly, or defense-friendly place. The county has banned certain "semi-auto" type weapons on a list-basis since 1993, and recently, in their ultimate wisdom, expanded the ban to mirror California's. That said and even though certain firearms are banned from possession, a strange addition to the state law (following the famous case of the Hale DeMar self-defense shooting with a handgun - in Willmette, IL - where handguns are banned) prohibits the state from prosecuting you if you use a banned weapon in lawful self defense. Case in point...I know an LEO who told me of a home intrusion, somewhere in Cook county, and sometime after the ban was passed and went into effect. Armed perp entered the house, homeowner deftly delivered "multiple lethal rounds" to the perp with an AKM type rifle (on the "banned" list). Weapon taken into custody (permanently, I presume, because of the ban)....homeowner's actions completely authorized by IL law...the was not charged in criminal court, and was protected from civil charges by the perp's family. Moreover, he was not charged for violating the county firearm ban.

Strange place, Illinois.

 

[Grandpa Shooter]

Some personal thoughts. Back when I lived in a large metro area and co- taught CCW classes, we cautioned people not to look "eager to shoot" so that they could indeed "convince a reasonable person" that they "had no other choice" but to shoot. That meant choosing a firearm carefully, learning enough to be competent, knowing their limitations, practicing in their surroundings, and not go looking for trouble. If a reasonble person wouldn't go walking at 2 am in Ethnic Park, you shouldn't be there either. Don't go looking for trouble and then try to claim you couldn't avoid it.

On the subject of the use of lethal force you might be wise to find out the actual wording in your state of the Statutes concerning the use of it. In some states shooting to wound is a felony based on the presumption that if you are skilled enough to control your fire to only wound, you could have used better reasoning and have avoided using force. Shooting to kill based on fear for one's life , the safety of persons in your company, or the fear of sexual assault, or to prevent arson of an occupied structure are generally considered to be the "only justifiable use of force" that will hold up in court. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule.

 

[KC&97TA]

1) If forced to, fire your weapon to stop the threat. Do not shoot to kill, although death of the perp is a likely outcome of stopping them. Double-tap center mass; assess effect, double tap again if necessary. Immobilize the threat.

I disagree on a legal stand point, if you fire your weapon "your life was in danger and or your families life and or the life of another was in danger"... Deadly Force is Authorized under any states law.

Don't shoot warning shots, don't try to shoot for a knee cap, when you fire, you shoot to kill to defend your life.

When the LEO's show up they're going to want your gun, the only statement you need to make "my life was in danger". Then contact a lawyer before makeing any other statements.

Don't say, "I wish I han't had to do it", or jump up in joy over killing, don't ask to have your picture taken with the fresh kill, keep your mouth shut and find a phone book, call a lawyer before makeing a statement.

To the main subject.

You're better off useing something "common" or mildly modified. For the average Joe. Depends on "who you are".

Now if you're Mr IDPA and you wack some bad guy with a race gun... you can fall back on being Mr IDPA.

If you're a US Marine and you have a M4-Gery set up like your issued weapon, you can fall back on that, even though it looks tactical and crazy intimidateing, you've trained professionally with that weapon, it's second nature to you.

If you owned a shooting range that rented class III firearms and you happened to kill an armed robber with an Uzi, putting 20 rounds of a 32 round mag in the bad guy takeing aim at you and it was the closest loaded firearm to you, you'd probly be fine.

Remember: The Police are going to take your gun and have it till the investigation is over, so between a week, a month, a year. So do you want to shoot an intruder with a Beretta 92FS that is easily replaced or do you want to shoot a bad guy with a tacti/cool M4-Gery that has a replacement value close to $3k.

Do you want to use that Kimber Custom II you bought at a gun show for $700 or your dads Colt Combat Commander that could never be replaced?

It's up to you what you carry, if it's off the shelf and it's not a machine gun, you're probly good... remember you were in fear for your life, what you used didn't really matter when the bottom line is drawn.

 

[AndyC]

Only thing that matters is what the jury believes.

 

[revjen45]

Don't carry a gun you love because if you have to use it you will never see it again.
Stopping to reassess the situation has gotten people killed. If you are truly justified in shooting keep shooting until he falls down. You are not shooting to kill- you are shooting to live.

 

[Andrewsky]

Ummm, it doesn't matter if you lose a $3,000 gun if it saves your life. Duh.

 

[RoadkingLarry]

So I guess you shouldn't ask if you can keep the head?

I know a guy that does taxidermy on the side.....

As far aas weapon type goes Oklahoma SDA allows up to .45 caliber with out regard to weapon type or style so the .50AE is verbotten.

As far as a shooting goes you have the Right to remain silent, a Right not exercsed can be a Right lost. If it was me I would give the briefest statement possiblethat would consist of little more than my ID and that I was in fear of my life and I will gladly give a full statement when I am in full control of my facilities (which would be after I hired an shyster.).

 

[stevemis]

<quote>Ummm, it doesn't matter if you lose a $3,000 gun if it saves your life.</quote>

The only time it doesn't matter is if it <b>doesn't</b> save your life.

 

[AntiqueCollector]

Don't use a class 3 weapon unless it's a very clear cut case of self-defense.