Guns and felons

[c919]

Good" people don't become convicted felons.

That's a pretty black and white statement. Good people do make mistakes, you know? I'm not going to attack your beliefs or anything, but I completely disagree. Do I think all felons are good people? No, most probably are not. However, what most of them are is uneducated and influenced by a part of our culture that we only address through legislature instead of the education and cultural reform needed.

I just can't get on board with the whole "once bad, always bad" notion. Furthermore, I don't view drug use as morally wrong. I don't advocate it and I view it as weak, but where I grew up I saw a good many of the people I knew as a kid get tangled up in drugs. I was one of smart ones who never really saw a need for that sort of excess, but many people who I went to school with my whole life went down the wrong path and many of them turned around a few years later and went back up the right path. Very few of them do I view as bad people. For the most part they were kids who made bad decisions, not bad people.

Also, I'd like to add that after years of working in the restaurant world, attending college, running into people I knew as youth, etc, I have met several completely reformed addicts who now have college degrees, families and are all around good citizens. The only difference with most of them is the fact that they never got caught. So I have seen that these people can turn it around for the better and I don't view someone as less likely to get better just because they got caught and punished.

If a person is concerned with his rights to bear arms, he should make every effort to remain a law abiding citizen. If pot is important enough to risk losing rights, well, they made a choice.

I agree, but most young adults aren't concerned with their 2A rights. Most college age kids just don't think about consequences.

I, OTOH, think guns kept me out of trouble in some ways. I had a good head on my shoulders, but like most people that age I did some partying and what not. I knew plenty of people who drove drunk and things like that. I wouldn't ever take that chance and I have to admit, the thought of losing your carry permit will really make you think harder about whether a few beers is worth it.

 

[EddieNFL]

That's a pretty black and white statement. Good people do make mistakes, you know?

Yes, and a price must be paid. Child molesters are required to register with authorities and, in some states, live a certain distance from schools, have no contact with children, etc. I see no difference with a convicted (violent and drug addicted) felons and firearms.

I, OTOH, think guns kept me out of trouble in some ways. I had a good head on my shoulders, but like most people that age I did some partying and what not. I knew plenty of people who drove drunk and things like that. I wouldn't ever take that chance and I have to admit, the thought of losing your carry permit will really make you think harder about whether a few beers is worth it.

Your friends felt the loss of privileges was worth the risk. Difficult to empathize.

 

[GonHuntin]

Oklahoma Law:

TITLE 21 § 1283. Convicted felons and delinquents

CONVICTED FELONS AND DELINQUENTS

A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, it shall be unlawful for any person convicted of any
felony in any court of this state or of another state or of the United States to have in his or her possession or
under his or her immediate control, or in any vehicle which the person is operating, or in which the person
is riding as a passenger, or at the residence where the convicted person resides, any pistol, imitation or
homemade pistol, altered air or toy pistol, machine gun, sawed-off shotgun or rifle, or any other dangerous
or deadly firearm.

/QUOTE]

 

[Sgt_R]

"Good" people don't become convicted felons.

You would be surprised. And I am in the camp that believes that the so called war on drugs is a lost cause and has been since it started. Alcohol kills far more people but it remains legal. The war on drugs has only been effective in restricting the rights of everyone.

A few years ago, I knew a highly skilled electronics technician with a good government job and a security clearance. Then he made a series of bad choices, developed a severe drug addiction, and found himself in the wrong place at the wrong time when his new 'friends' decided to commit a robbery. He's currently serving 5-7.

I wouldn't say that he's a bad person. When I knew him, he was my best friend.

R

 

[EddieNFL]

He wasn't...when you knew him. Ask his victim's opinion.

 

[lobo9er]

EddieNfl he might not have victimized anyone he may have been unknowingly in a get away car. what ever i doubt your opinion would be swayed. I just cant agree with you. Things aren't black and white the way you see them. for example an 18-19 year old kid that gets caught up in it I don't think deserves to be sub-human his whole life. thats my 2 cents. the law like all laws will only keep law abiders from owning guns. Chicago handguns are illegal yet theres still shootings please explain how thats possible.

 

[EddieNFL]

I just cant agree with you.

That's the great thing, you don't have too.

If you'll go back and read my earlier post you'll see I'm not opposed to restoration of rights. I just don't think it should be an option in every case. Some should never again be allowed to own a weapon.

It's my opinion. No more right or wrong than your's.

 

[One-Time]

I suggest you take a look at what things are felonies in America now days, Its easier than ever to become a felon in america.

 

[EddieNFL]

I suggest you take a look at what things are felonies in America now days, Its easier than ever to become a felon in america.

All about choices.

 

[One-Time]

Not really

If I get in a fight, even if I just defend myself and I have a pocket knife in my pocket I can easily go down for Agg Batt

If I am taking a walk, and happen to cross a 'Construction Zone' I am a felon


etc; Take a look youd be suprised

 

[Cosmoline]

"Good" people don't become convicted felons.

Don't bet on it. Often times the worst will know how to play the system and get buy without charges or with reduced charges. How? By testifying against the ones who naively think they can win in court because they're innocent. All of us have committed felonies, many times. Due to state and federal felony creep, behavior that is totally innocuous and harms nobody is still a felony. You'd be amazed how broad these laws are. Conspiracy is so broad it can include people who were merely associated with criminals. And if the hard core elements are willing to finger you, forget it. Many, many people are in prison basically because they hung out with the wrong crowd. Not because they *did* anything in particular.

We leave it to prosecutors and juries to sort out the "bad" from the "good," but they do a pretty poor job of it. In the mean time while the number of felonies has exploded, the punishments continue to get nastier.

In my opinion, based on all I've seen of the legal system, life as a felon is simply not worth living unless you actually *ARE* a career criminal.

 

[ArmedBear]

"Felony" sure doesn't mean what you think it means, EddieNFL.

It seems that a Sex Ed teacher who teaches about contraceptives in Wisconsin, is committing a felony: http://www.nowpublic.com/world/wisconsin-da-warns-sex-ed-teachers-felony-charges

But in case you don't see anything wrong with charging a public school teacher with a felony for doing his/her job and following the official lesson plan, maybe the 143,000 cases of felony loitering in the US will convince you...

http://felonyguide.com/List-of-felony-crimes.php

Attorney Harvey Silvergate asserts that the average American commits 3 Federal felonies a day. Nearly anyone can be prosecuted for a felony, should a prosecutor pursue the case for whatever reason.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1594032556/reasonmagazineA/

 

[EddieNFL]

Yeah, I think it does. I could post a definition, but I'm sure it could be spun in a number of different directions.

I guess I'm a little old school. I still believe in personal responsibility.

It seems that a Sex Ed teacher who teaches about contraceptives in Wisconsin, is committing a felony:

And at one point a husband could confine his wife to the household to "correct" her.

 

[ArmedBear]

The law in Wisconsin is BRAND NEW, EddieNFL, which you would have discovered, had you clicked on the link. It's not some silly old law. It was passed on March 11, 2010.

You're not "old school." You're willfully oblivious to the reality of US legal system in 2010. Pray you are never ambushed by reality.

If "felony" meant felony, I'd be all for automatically denying the right to have a gun to felons. But denying that right to loiterers? No.

 

[Crusader103]

"Good" people often become felons. "Innocent" people are often in jeopardy of becoming felons. Bad guys often get off on charges. Good guys are often convicted. It's not an opinion. It is a fact. 10 years in police work and several as an expert witness in court (for both prosecution and defense) has convinced me of that. If it were not so, my services would never be needed. But they are... too often.

That in and of itself does not speak anything towards the OP or his friend. I know nothing about that case.

To speak to the OP's original question - Your friend would not be in legal jeopardy for hanging around you unless he was knowingly in actual or constructive possession of a firearm. Construtive possession can be thought of as "dominion and control."

A convicted felon could reside in a home where firearms were present, i.e. they are kept in a safe for which the felon does not have the combination. If the firearm is on your person he does not have actual or constructive possession of it. You do. In most cases he could go into a gun shop and look at the guns through the glass display. He does not have physical possession nor constructive possession. The gun shop does. Just don't ask to handle one or walk up to one unsecured on a shelf.

Don't mistake my words for suggesting that he do so. An abundance of caution is reasonable in this situation and that is the advice that it sounds like he was given. But in short, to be convicted he would have to have knowledge (intent) of actually possessing or exercising dominion and control over the firearm.

 

[EddieNFL]

The law in Wisconsin is BRAND NEW, EddieNFL, which you would have discovered, had you clicked on the link. It's not some silly old law. It was passed on March 11, 2010.

Not living in WI, I wasn't interested.

You've decided I'm opposed to rights restoration and I am not. I just don't agree with it in many cases. You would know this had you paid closer attention to my posts

 

[blitzen]

The state of Alaska is currently trying to pass a bill that allowes non violent felons to be able to possess a firearm. And I think they should. The whole idea of , if you wrote a bad check and were convicted of a felony, that you are the scum of the earth with no rights, to be kept under the the thumb of the government for the rest of your life is wrong on many fronts. If you did the crime and did the time, in my view, all is forgiven. You may now walk the earth with your head held high and have the same rights as all free men.

 

[NMPOPS]

It appears to me this guy was convicted of a Federal crime as DEA rarely files charges in State Courts. So, the state cannot restore his rights and as someone stated the chance of th Feds restoring those rights is nil. "felon in Possession of a firearm" is 5 years in a federal pen, mandatory. Possession to the Feds and in my state means access to a firearm. Means he cannot be in a house or car or with a persons if he is aware of the presense of a firearm, and the courts will assume he was aware and he will need to prove otherwise. Best he stay away froms guns. Once a felon always a felon.

 

[NMPOPS]

If some one wrote a bad check and was convicted of a felony it means not only did they write it but they failed to make good on it when the prosecuter gave them a chance. So yes they should lose the rights a felon loses because they are now a felon.

 

[belercous]

Your friend can have his right to own a gun restored. First, the crime must be expunged from his record. It does not take a lawyer to do this, just some time & paperwork. It is a whole lot easier (but more expensive)
If he is indigent he can have all court fees waived under a finding of "in forma pauperis" which takes a few minutes to fill out the paperwork and have a judge sign off on it. In my state, Illinois, it takes five years and a clean record since then to get your full rights restored. The US Gov. will honor your state's judicial ruling. Many states will not expunge a felony which is for a "violent" crime, but even here in Illinois a person with one incident of Domestic Violence can eventually own a firearm, once it has been expunged.
Also please note that anyone, in any state, can have anything they have ever been charged with, but not plead or found guilty, expunged from their record. Even though one may not have been found guilty or if the charges were dropped, the state has a record of this. I say this because it may come back and bite you in the ass years later. When I was at the local DA's office we were told that if you thought someone might be lying to you about previous encounters with the law, to run their name through the computer and see what pops up. Expungment of one's record precludes this. All states allow it for crimes not plead to or found guilty of, and most states permit this for old crimes for one who does not have a history of crimminality. Misdemeanors (excepting domestic battery) do not preclude one from owning firearms.

 

[Art Eatman]

Post #28 summed it up. No guns. No ammo. No touch either. End of story.

Yes, BATFE has a process for restoration of rights. However, they refuse to budget money for it, so no rights get restored. Forget it.

The operative word for friends of the felon is "control". As long as the felon does not touch or handle, the friend can carry via CHL, etc., with no jeopardy.

And opinions about the good or bad are way off topic. Our opinions, just like state laws, don't affect federal laws.