Guns in water

[bobmcd]

Spinning off from another thread about gunplay in the movies ...

I'm always pretty careful to avoid getting a weapon wet or dirty, but a couple of movies I've seen recently got me to thinking just how wet a gun can be and still function properly and safely. (Metal-cartridge weapons, not black-powder weapons, which obviously really need to be kept dry.)

One scene (which I found to be reasonable) was in "No Country for Old Men", in which Moss is being chased by a dog, swims a stream, and then pulls back the slide on his pistol to blow the water out of the barrel before shooting it.

The other scene (which I found to be hysterical) was in "Hitman". The Hitman accidentally drops his pistol in a toilet, and then spends the next couple of minutes in a desperate hand-to-hand scuffle that revolves around holding his gun under the electric hot-air hand-dryer so that he can finally shoot it. (I know, it's an action movie based on a video game, so realism is not necessarily a key consideration.)

While water (or anything else) in the barrel would be a very big no-no, surely water in other parts of the action would not be a short-term problem? (I.e., clean and dry it to keep it from rusting, but don't worry about shooting it, especially if you're in the middle of an SD situation.)

 

[Oro]

I remember both of those scenes and thought they were both interesting, one for credibility, the other for pure silliness just like you described.

But seriously, I saw a serious test by a 1911 builder recently. What they determined it took was to simply point the barrel downward and let it drain out. Then you were good to go. This stands to physical reasoning (the water is not going to significantly impact any function of the action until the bullet actually leaves the cartridge). This was tested and proven, not just conjecture or speculation.

Just clear the barrel, then fire away - doesn't really matter what kind of gun.

 

[Pulse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqeI5dMzQLA

shooting underwater should not be a problem with a modern quality hangun.
i would not do it with a rifle, to small bore and to high pressure.

 

[heron]

I can see it coming . . . endless arguments about the best pistol or cartridge or carry holster for shark, barracuda, giant squid . . .

 

[theotherwaldo]

Pretty much anything larger than .22, just pour the water out of the barrel. .22 and smaller, capillary action gets involved. You may have to shake or blow out the water. Water elsewhere in the mechanism isn't likely to do anything important.

 

[Parabellus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqeI5dMzQLA

shooting underwater should not be a problem with a modern quality hangun.
i would not do it with a rifle, to small bore and to high pressure.

I believe it was an episode of 'Sea Hunt' in the early '60s in which a SCUBA diver shot at Lloyd Bridges with a handgun under water. The point was that the bullet would be effective only a few feet in water. I don't remember if it was a revolver or semiauto.

Russell

 

[Duke of Doubt]

I love these discussions. Even better than the "what happens if you shoot a gun underwater" was the "what happens if you shoot a gun in space" debate. Everyone was so worried about the cartridge igniting that they forgot they'd likely be in a weightless environment, and so with recoil would blow themselves off their own two feet and into a rapid topspin and low lunar orbit.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Doesn't anyone here watch Mythbusters?

 

[Pulse]

I believe it was an episode of 'Sea Hunt' in the early '60s in which a SCUBA diver shot at Lloyd Bridges with a handgun under water. The point was that the bullet would be effective only a few feet in water. I don't remember if it was a revolver or semiauto.

yes, even the 'best' gun wont be anywhere as effective as a harpoon or bow/crossbow underwater, but they do work.
however, not sure if revolvers would work, the pressure gap might be to mutch resistance to overcome?

"what happens if you shoot a gun in space" debate. Everyone was so worried about the cartridge igniting that they forgot they'd likely be in a weightless environment, and so with recoil would blow themselves off their own two feet and into a rapid topspin and low lunar orbit.

the laws of physic still apply, while you might not have weight in Space, you still have mass.
a 200kg (Man+Kit) is not going to moved mutch by a 20J of recoil energy a average Pistol produces.
however, if you would be floating free in space and fire, you will get a little backwards momentum, if you emtpy a entire mag, you might even take on some speed.
you would need a seriously big gun to make the mass of a human spin around his own axis.

 

[Funderb]

you would need a seriously big gun to make the mass of a human spin around his own axis.

Probably a mosin...

 

[Mt Shooter]

Guns and Ammo TV, in there torture test, shot a 45 apc in a swimming pool. They fired it several times, the barrel did get bulge in it.But it did function.

 

[TeamPrecisionIT]

I have personally shot my handgun underwater and it functioned exactly as if it were dry. It cycled the action and ejected the spent round just fine. And it was done three times all within a few seconds of each other. And yes, the handgun was completely underwater and was not damaged in any way even with a careful examination for cracks or strange wear with a magnifying glass.

Damian

 

[Acera]

How many of the current crop of recruiting commercials show someone with a weapon coming out of the water? What about the SOCOM II ad that Springfield runs about bring enough gun, I don't see it as that big a deal.

Drain the water and let it rip.

 

[Oro]

the laws of physic still apply, while you might not have weight in Space, you still have mass.
a 200kg (Man+Kit)

Pulse is my new hero! Someone else with some basic science education who uses physics and logic to answer internet forum questions! What a refreshing change! You are my new best (internet) buddy...

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Pulse: "while you might not have weight in Space, you still have mass."

And how.

But yes, actually I was imagining a missguided Cosmonaut raking the Apollo Lander with his AK-47. In that case, I believe he would put himself into a topspin and perhaps, low lunar orbit.

If he used his Mosin-Nagant M44, it would have to be a shot from a particularly inopportune firing position; say, crouching, beading down onto Neil Armstrong from the rim of a crater. Like a lucky dead-on pool shot, Mr. Gorsky just might propel himself upward and backward from the rim and into orbit.

 

[runrabbitrun]

What about the ammo itself?

Say:
Golden Bear 7.62 x 39 123 grain bimetal FMJ's
with brass plated case and non corrosive Berdan premier?

Or Fiocchi 9mm Luger 9AP 115 grain FMJ's?

I probably could of Googled this quicker than I typed this question. lol

 

[wyocarp]

I always carry my Glock 29 while swimming.

 

[Boba Fett]

I can see it coming . . . endless arguments about the best pistol or cartridge or carry holster for shark, barracuda, giant squid . . .

Oh, but think of the new hunting possibilities!

And all the great photos of people in their coral camouflage scuba gear, standing on the beach, their Colt 45 in one hand, the tentacles of a giant squid in the other, a big grin on his face with a caption, "Bagged this giant squid at 3 fathoms!"

 

[Duke of Doubt]

I'll bet Jacques Cousteau could have told stories of when the whale manure hits the alluvial fan.

 

[rondog]

What about concussion underwater? Is that a factor?

 

[GTFord1]

The other scene (which I found to be hysterical) was in "Hitman". The Hitman accidentally drops his pistol in a toilet, and then spends the next couple of minutes in a desperate hand-to-hand scuffle that revolves around holding his gun under the electric hot-air hand-dryer so that he can finally shoot it. (I know, it's an action movie based on a video game, so realism is not necessarily a key consideration.)

I'm pretty sure you're describing a scene out of a movie called "Shoot Em Up," not Hitman. I saw about fifteen minutes of it (including that scene) on HBO. Really awful movie.

 

[John Wayne]

There is a scene in Hitman where the main character hides his 1911s in a toilet tank...but it's in a ziploc bag. He also hides them in an ice machine at one point.

 

[Milkmaster]

Guns and Ammo TV, in there torture test, shot a 45 apc in a swimming pool. They fired it several times, the barrel did get bulge in it.But it did function.

That was exactly what I was thinking. If the barrel is full of water, the pressure may be such that the barrel may not be useful after the first shot. Bore obstructions aren't cool!

 

[wyocarp]

Underwater hunting might be a whole new venue/sport that would draw many more into the sport of shooting. Port the barrel much of the way down and it might work without bulging.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Underwater marksmanship tournaments could take place without noise bothering the neighbors.