Guru's .... honest opinion?

[P95Carry]

Went into gun shop this afternoon ... to pick up a copy FFL. Should then have left.

I was looking at a Mod 12 yesterday, elsewhere, but hadn't got the $350 or so they wanted. Still been thinking tho I want a simple pump to ''play with'' and maybe try for trap use... just an inexpensive beater really.

Well .. whilst waiting around, spied something! An old Ted Williams Model 200 ... with dial-up choke. Had a look ... tried for fit . Seems pretty good .. trigger a bit ''clunky'' but otherwise ... for ......... just ........ £125 ...... so .. weakened ... brought it home!! Some detail pics below... some S/N #'s removed.

So - first ....... what are your thoughts?? This ole Sears and Roebuck must be gettin on (like me) .. but .... any ideas on dating, before I dig some research? Did I waste my cash? I hope to try it Thursday evening with my son.

Other question tho ...... seems bit odd this. The dial-up choke is marked with positions .. can't show that very well on pics (just show the open and closed extremes) .. did them quick..... but ...... from ''right to left'' if you will (rotating counter clock') ...... Full - (big gap) - Mod - Imp Cyl - Cyl. Now, when done up tight .. in fact it is one click beyond Full ... and sits on CYL!! position... obviously NOT Cyl !

So ... my assumption is .. rotate counter clock' one click .. and then we are on Full, so start from there .... then THREE clicks to reach next mark which is Mod .. one more click gives Imp Cyl, and finally one more click to Cyl.

Just seems as tho, ignoring the Cyl line up - when fully tightened down I maybe have a tad of ''tighter'' full ... what say you?

Guess I'm seaking opinion from perhaps someone with same choke system .. I mean, seems clear enough in essence .. just this oddity starting the sequence '' one click late'' ... plus this three click gap between Full and Mod.

I am hoping here that as long as I select Mod .. should choke me tight enough and safely with steel shot.?

Right ... enough waffle ...... let's hear what you reckon ... if you will.

 

[TrapperReady]

Can't comment specifically on the Ted Williams Model 200... I would have thought it to be a baseball mitt, myself.

The adjustable choke, though... even if marked with definite "Cyl" "Mod" "Full" positions... those are usually only rough approximations. Most of the guys who shoot them at all seriously will twist them around and pattern them, making their own markings with enamel paint or nail polish.

WRT steel shot, I've heard occasional bad things about it (when used with polychokes)... although Dave or HSMITH would be more likely to know for sure.

As for the gun itself... you liked it enough to buy it. As long as it is functionally safe (it would be a good idea to have it checked out by a smith prior to firing) and fits reasonably well, you should be able to enjoy it.

Please be sure to let us know how it works out!

 

[P95Carry]

Thx TR ... well, I don't expect anything too great from this thing ..... if worst comes to worst it'll finish up just a good ole beater for simple play!! Even cut it down for a HD gun! Have to say ... it does feel well OK ... and have been checking out mechanics .... nothing so far appears in the least unsafe - bolt lock-up is my main concern ... and that appears well adequate.

Anyways ... the shop knows me well ... and if a total lemon it'll go back!

I will tho hope for more input .. and then hopefully and cautiously, try it out Thursday.

 

[sm]

Not a guru , but I play with shotguns

I dunno about the Ted Williams , Jagermeister might help with ID, but at least I knew it was a shotgun. ( just ribbing you TR).

My first concern is as to whether the bbl is compatable for steel shot. some older bbls were NOT.
Bismuth would still work...determined to get you to reload this stuff and test it...watch me.

Now that "turd on the end" [ what we called them in my day] appears to be a "Polychoke" or "Select-choke". [ note the collets] Serious brain fart as to the exact spelling and name. Theory is as you state, "dial the desired choke". Reality is as I always say, just because something is marked - don't make it so. [ yep gotta use the pattern board to find out]

I'd have Jagermeister give you the history, use the pattern board and post results, be very educational for us all. I'm betting the steel is NOT steel compatable...why do I think that gun was made by S&W?

Hey you got a new toy, it was a good day...that's all that matters my friend.

 

[anapex]

My dad has used a Ted Williams w/ dial choke in 20ga for as long as I can remember. I had heard that they are basically rebranded Winchesters, any truth to that?

 

[P95Carry]

Thx for your input Steve ..

I'm betting the steel is NOT steel compatable

Now this gets me thinking .. if we assume (rightly I hope) that the steel shot per se, does not impinge on the barrel's surface ... and that is chromed like most ..... what are the problems regarding barrel's ''suitableness'' for steel shot?

The wad is by default much thicker ... thus the need to open choking up ... but apart from that ... are we dealing with any significantly greater internal pressures due to steel? Let's say - the ''interim pressures'' ... those experienced by the barrel steel between launch and the wad actually exiting muzzle.

Where in fact do dangers lurk? I have only had to use steel at this one club ... and that only since less than a year ago, so will admit to not being totally 'aux fait' with all the nuances of useage of same.

 

[sm]

barrel's surface ... and that is chromed like most ..... what are the problems regarding barrel's ''suitableness'' for steel shot

I really don't know the "why" to be perfectly honest with you Chris. I have heard many "thoughts".

Then I have "my gut feelings"

I have no idea on the pressure differences on steel and lead shot. What I do feel comfortable about is this:

- Heat treatment differences of steel. [ includes 'back then' and now]

-How this and the wall thickness of chamber and forcing cone when used with steel shot that "resists" deformation. [one reason why some guns, even newer designs, can be risky to do a forcing cone - not enough meat left to handle pressures of anything more than light target loads].

-Same concerns apply to "tightly choked" as you brought out earlier, many tight choke bbls bulged and split when steel shot first used. Granted the wad is thicker, but even so when shot does not deform - something is gonna give. Remember we are dealing with pressures akin to a grenade.

-Adjustable chokes I don't think will take kindly to steel. I have no basis for this, just a gut feeling. I don't recall anyone shooting steel out of one.

- I do know a fella with an old JC Higgins, with a Polychoke, he was told to NOT use steel in it.

*Ding Ding Ding*...Jagermeister...Was this gun a JC Higgins made for Sears?

See Chris,I keep telling you I ain't that smart...now will you believe me?

 

[P95Carry]

See Chris,I keep telling you I ain't that smart...now will you believe me?

Steve .. it ain't all about ''smarts'' ...... and believe me ... I reckon you have way more experience than me with shotties ..... they have always been third place with me, after handguns and rifles.!!

I am concerned enough to certainly think hard re exposing this ole bird to steel ... still got 36 hours before I decide whether to or not! Tomorrow I will tear it down to deep clean and inspect further.

Another thing .. input on these sorta matters does not by default have to be ''expert'' .... per se ..... any and all input is valuable ... stimulates self thinking and analysis of the whole deal.

Stop doin yourself down! ya hear!!

 

[sm]

Hey Chris,
I'm back...had to take an on-line exam. Tough one too...boy I was ticked only made a 74.1%, beating myself up until the results came back...next highest grade was a 68%...so I made the highest grade; rest of the class went downhill fast. Whew! Now I'm grateful.

Anyway, I still ain't that smart...it this gun a pump? See I don't even know that much. I don't know the monetary conversion [if you post USD it would help sheesh, Ex- patriots I swear!]

So you want a another shotgun for whatever, umm...why not a police trade in? Then again don't know ( due to money exchange rates) what you have in this one. 870 Express...see where I'm going? I know, you are weak, the brain farts and the wallet opens when you go into a gunshop. Oh not a bad thing...not at all...just one of those things that happens.

I dunno, I'm thinking about a friend (that's you) spending monies on a SG and I want to "suggest" you get what you paid for, for the task, with the ability to get parts, be fitted to shooter...yada yada yada. I'm just wired that way. Broken record perhaps...careful you are old enough to know what a record is.

 

[P95Carry]

Steve ...... laid out $125 on this .. so ...... no big deal, and no great expectations. As I said ... expected a bit of a beater and ... if worst comes to worst .... ''chop-chop'' ... HD gun for house!

Where's that McCracken guy anyways .. ?? and ''H'' ... when ya need em!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh ... and highest grade eh?? haha! The ''smarts'' win thru!!

 

[Dave McCracken]

Here I am Chris, these double shifts are getting to me.

Best guess, this is a remarked Winchester 1200. But Harley can nail it down. I do know one TW model was the 1200, but I do not know which.

While the 1200 failed miserably in the MD prison system, it seems to be acceptably reliable and durable when cared for properly.

Re Dialachokes...

Ignore the markings, some of these are just guesses, others may be on at one setting and wildly off at another.

More importantly, many are not installed concentrically to the bore. Some won't hit the right Zip Code.

Patterning is crucial with any shotgun. Open that choke to its most open position, set up at 20 yards, and shoot a light target load. Repeat twice, then check to see where the COP falls. Repeat at 20 yards with the thing screwed down tight to see if things shift. Move back to say, 35 yards and try it again.

Now get empirical. Use nail polish or Testor's Enamel in divers colors to mark where a good 20 yard pattern is, then a good 30 yard one, etc.

As for non toxic shot loads, determine the maker of this and ask them. I'd be chary of using steel in ANY shotgun barrels made before 1980 or so, but there is Bismuth.

I'd also be chary of using this with most any load with the thing screwed down all the way. Those "Petals" have been known to bust when this happens, including with the round "Punkin Ball" solids of yesteryear.

If it is a 1200, and if that Dialachoke is on straight, you've got a lot of shotgun for a little money.

 

[Edward429451]

I had heard that they are basically rebranded Winchesters, any truth to that?

input on these sorta matters does not by default have to be ''expert'' ....

(That would be me ) Expert on nothing, a little knowledge on much.

Seriously though Chris. I think it probably is a Winchester 1200 (copy)

When I was young we had a sears copy of a Win 1200. I called it a winchester even though it was in fact a Sears 200. I think the definitive thing to check on it is the placement of the slide release, which on the Win and on our old 200 was pretty much behind the trigger guard. When I was young and had little hands I could actuate it with my ring finger (stronghand). Ours didn't have the external choke, and didn't say TW on it either...so there you have it...a decididly non expert input.

We had ours chopped & beaded also. Wound up trading it for a car that I sold for 450. Good deal I suppose but sometimes I do miss it. Another thing you could do is find an exploded parts diagram on the net for a 1200 and compare with yours to see if it's a 1200 or not.

HTH's

 

[P95Carry]

Thx Dave ... sorry about the double shifts ... never much fun! Appreciate the input .... and Ed' ..... yeah, slide release right where you say ... I'll check out some diagrams . I have a real old book of exploded's .... a DBI from early '80's ... it has a diag of 1200 and from first look ... seems we are on right track.

I think I'll play safe and check out patterns with my normal lead loads ... take it from there. Thx guys.