johnsonrlp
Member
Me want, me want. Why won't H&K sell rifles to civilians? Do they realize how much money they would make?:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: [sigh]
H&K 416
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Evil Monkey
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Forget the damn 416's I want a G36!!!!
We already have a crap load of companies here in the States that make AR-15 types rifles, do we really need another? You want a short stroke gas operated AR15? Get an upper from some of the domestic companies. And pray HK makes a semi auto G36 for the civilian market....make one in .308
We already have a crap load of companies here in the States that make AR-15 types rifles, do we really need another? You want a short stroke gas operated AR15? Get an upper from some of the domestic companies. And pray HK makes a semi auto G36 for the civilian market....make one in .308
johnsonrlp
Member
Yeah. I want one of those too. In a few different calibers
Bergeron
Member
I imagine that most of the H&K 416s are already spoken for by either military or police organizations, and I also imagine that this will be situation for quite a while to come.
If they are able to eventually produce enough to have surplus stock available for non-military or law enforcement sales, I don't see why they wouldn't sell to you or me, but I doubt that situation will arise anytime in the near future.
If they are able to eventually produce enough to have surplus stock available for non-military or law enforcement sales, I don't see why they wouldn't sell to you or me, but I doubt that situation will arise anytime in the near future.
This rifle already exists - it's called HK SL 8. Google for it.
BTW: I fired the HK SL 8 as well as the G 36 and I don't like both.
The triggers are simply cruel, the precision is poor (around 2-3 MOA).
The buttstock of the G 36 is quite weak, it frequently breaks apart, as several soldiers of the German Army told me.
The sights of the G 36 (red dot as well as "scope") are really, really bad.
The rifle is said to be quite reliable, but I once fired one that jammed every second shot.
Me thinks there is quite a myth around HK, which started with the MP 5, the statussymbol of every SWAT team (the MP 5 is indeed a good gun). HK of course is busy fostering this "Mercedes-among-the-guns-handmade-in-the-Black-Forest"-myth.
Don't get me wrong: HK is producing some good and some not-so-bad guns, but the G36/Sl8 is nothing I would want to buy.
Every average AR 15 offers greater accuracy and every AK-type rifle is more reliable, but cheaper.
I havn't fired a 416 yet, but I doubt that it has any advantages over the AR 15 design, upon which it is based. Maybe it's more reliable under harsh conditions, but most of us can clean their rifles and don't want to use them in a war.
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Lebben-B
Member
Concur, Concur, Concur. I haven't played with an SL8, but I have spent some time with the G36. After a couple hundred rounds, my groups really started to open up. "***!" says I. My friend the Oberfeldwebel (Part of the German Liasion to the 18th ABC) told me not to worry, that it tends to do that when it's hot. Something about the barrel mount in the receiver. (My german isn't what it used to be.)
HK does make wonderful pistols, though.
Mike
Chipperman
Member
For those that do not already know, the SL8 is no longer available. The USC is not either.
Evil Monkey
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SL-ugly, I mean 8.
G36
I knew the SL8 existed, but tell me which one you would choose if given the choice? An SL8 or a semi auto G36? The answer is obvious! The G36!
G36
I knew the SL8 existed, but tell me which one you would choose if given the choice? An SL8 or a semi auto G36? The answer is obvious! The G36!
The SL8 is the semi auto version of the G36, but I know what you mean.
(There are SL8-into-G36-look-alike-conversion-kits, for a lot $$ you can have a semi auto rifle, looking like a G36.)
Ok.
SL8: Very, very ugly. Terrible trigger. Poor Accuracy. Said to be reliable
G36: Not a beauty queen. Terrible trigger. Poor Accuracy. Bad sights. Said to be reliable.
I would choose an AR 15. In fact I did.
My next semi auto rifle will be an AK-type.
Chipperman
Member
The SL8 pic you posted shows the light grey plastic variant. The vast majority of the ones in the US were a darker grey (still considered ugly by most people).
My SL8 is as accurate as my AR. I think the trigger is fine, but I guess I'm not that picky.
My SL8 is as accurate as my AR. I think the trigger is fine, but I guess I'm not that picky.
MachIVshooter
Member
Because HK is about the most arrogant firearms manufactring firm on the planet. They have their collective noses so high in the air it's disgusting. I liked my USP .45, but after speaking with a few HK reps and getting the same "we're too good for civilians" attitude, I'll never buy another HK firearm. Their quality is good, but no better than so many other manufacturers-German, American, Italian or other.
(BTW, I sold my USP stainless .45 for cash to buy a LNIB S&W 1006. It was a good decision)
The SL8 and G36 offer nothing that AR platforms don't (unless you like Bulky plastic ugly sticks).
Langenator
Member
If you absolutely have to have a piston driven, 5.56/.223 semi-auto version of a military rifle made by people who speak German, why not buy the new SiG rifle when it's released?
johnsonrlp
Member
ahh, Sig. I want a 416 cause I have a couple buddies in USASOC and they tell me it takes a lot less cleaning to keep it running.
Lebben-B
Member
Have you thought about the POF-USA or Leitner-Wise piston uppers for the AR? Both make a high quality product. The L-W is somewhat closer to the 416design. I've shot both and I own a POF.
Mike
I recently got word that H&K is halting shipments of the G36 to the USA. No word yet on G36 parts. I handeled a G36, and I was not overly impressed. Things are a little nervous out our way when it comes to H&K. Great products, but horrible customer service.
I wonder if H&K is upset about the XM8 project being canned. If what I hear about the G36 is true, maybe this was caused in part by the XM8 project being cancelled.
I wonder if H&K is upset about the XM8 project being canned. If what I hear about the G36 is true, maybe this was caused in part by the XM8 project being cancelled.
Fed168
Member
The 36 isn't all it's cracked up to be. the aforementioned trigger is bad- doesn't really lend to a nice, crisp match trigger. And then there is the sight system. The scope part of mine would fog up in the winter or a change in temperature, and it was set too high for a proper cheek weld. Even with a field expedient cheek pad, it still didn't lend to a good cheek weld. Same issue arose with a rail installed instead of the rear sight assembly. Ugh.
Bipod legs were one size fits all. Not really- the legs were too tall.
But it was easy to maintain and the gas system was great. To me that's all it really had going for it.
Short of the entire 416 being made in the US- doesn't it fall under the '89 legislation? The company is really loosing out by not offering at the least the upper to the public. I guess those potential sales don't bring in nearly the amount of scratch a contract would .
Bipod legs were one size fits all. Not really- the legs were too tall.
But it was easy to maintain and the gas system was great. To me that's all it really had going for it.
Short of the entire 416 being made in the US- doesn't it fall under the '89 legislation? The company is really loosing out by not offering at the least the upper to the public. I guess those potential sales don't bring in nearly the amount of scratch a contract would
.HorseSoldier
Member
The real excitement is that really short barrel 416s work reliably, while getting direct gas uppers to run reliably at lengths like 12" and shorter can be pretty hit and miss.
MachIVshooter
Member
Those folks are the ones in the "civilians shouldn't be allowed to have them" group. The reason they gravitate toward HK is because HK won't market the same firearms to civilians. It gives these types a feeling of superiority, even though they don't actually have it.
With the sole exception of the MP5 family, HK makes nothing that other firms can't equal or surpass (for that matter, the IMI Uzi and Beretta model 12 are just as reliable, though not as accurate). But AR-10(T) and M1A NM are just as accurate as a 91/SR9(T), the M-4 is every bit as good as the 33 or 36, Shorty FAL's and AR-10 carbines perform on par with the G3A4. Need I mention that the action design on every HK rifle was stolen from the Spanish? We won't even get into handguns.
My point is not that HK doesn't make good guns. But their attitude and their marketing toward primadonna LE agencies does not a superior firearm make. Colt, Beretta, Sig, S&W, FN, Armalite, etc. all produce equally good firearms, often more aesthetically pleasing and/or with better ergonomics. And the rep's from these companies don't treat civilians as second-rate. A good plan, when one considers that civilians account for the majority of gun sales in the US by a very large margin.
And it makes HK a political correct firearms manufacturer (who doesn't sell evil "assault rifles" to everyone). So both parties are happy.
I think it should be clear now that I don't like HK too much. But sorry to say this, the above statement about the action design (roller locking) isn't the...uhmm...complete truth.
"The G3 uses a firing mechanism that was developed from a roller-locking system patented by Edward Stecke of Poland during the 1930s; this was used in the MG-42. Near the end of the war Mauser was working on the StG.45(M), which did not make it past the prototype stage but used a development of the roller-locking system, known as a "Delayed Roller Locking" system. This roller-delayed blowback was further developed in Spain, which was looking for a new rifle. The CETME prototypes were complete by the early 1950s, and standardized on the then new NATO 7.62 mm round. This was adopted as the CETME by Spain in 1954, and with some differences, as the G3 by West Germany in 1959. The West German government bought a licence for manufacture of it and transferred it to HK, though they (HK), and former Mauser engineers had been integral to its development in Spain."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_G3A4
Langenator
Member
Last I checked, the roller-delayed blowback action originated with the MG-42 (or was it the MG-34?). Both were WWII German designs, with the MG42 being far and away the most effective GPMG of the war.
After the war, a large number of German weapons designers relocated to Spain (Franco still liked his old benefactors), and it was this group who helped design the CETME.
After the war, a large number of German weapons designers relocated to Spain (Franco still liked his old benefactors), and it was this group who helped design the CETME.
Fosbery
Member
If it's made in Switzerland and it shoots, I'll buy it
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