H.R. 629 Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act

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The problem has cropped up with Social Security beneficiaries as well as VA beneficiaries -- that is, those who are unable to handle their own financial affairs, and require a guardian (fiduciary) to be appointed, are being proposed to be reported to NICS as being mentally incompetent for purposes of buying a gun. There would be no judicial finding that the person is a danger to himself or others, so this seems to be stretching the government's legal authority.

The solution should apply across the board, and not just to veterans. Why are we treating veterans as a protected class, with special privileges? What we need is a broad-based bill, and not just a veterans' bill.
 
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I get so tired of hearing people dismiss this as no big deal, they don't care enough to find out what the problem is and as a result veterans loose their rights.

Most people assume that a judge adjudicates the veteran as being incompetent, while that can happen it isn't typically the way the VA declares a veteran incompetent.

Under Federal Law
38 CFR 13.55
The Veterans Service Center Manager is authorized to select and appoint...the person or legal entity best suited to receive Department of Veterans Affairs benefits in a fiduciary capacity
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All citizens have their rights protected under a legal process but veterans don't. Civil law requires that a judge review evidence before he can adjudicate you as incompetent and if he does find you to be incompetent he can then assign a fiduciary to handle your affairs. The VA on the other hand, does just the opposite via departmental policy. They say that they need to assign a fiduciary to handle your affairs and that makes you incompetent.

Normally the VA simply asks the veteran if he has problems paying his bills on time and if the veteran says yes then that starts the administrative (as opposed to a lawful) process of assigning him/her a fiduciary and if the fiduciary is assigned then the veteran is automatically declared incompetent. Being incompetent for the VA means that the VA has determined that the veteran can't be responsible to spend his/her benefit monies properly, it doesn't matter why you didn't pay your bills, they don't care if you are a schizophrenic with delusions or simply lazy, they only care how you spend your VA benefits - that's not my unfounded opinion, that's actually the VA policy.
 
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Old Dog said:
Because this problem has initially cropped up directly related to, and pertaining only to, veterans.
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Or we can at least agree that it disproportionally affects this segment of the population due to PTSD or other combat-related injuries sustained while in service.
 
Drail said:
Now if we could just get some quality medical care.........
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It's a simple, two-step process:

1. Turn the FBI loose on the VA. If the rumors of people dying because of a false waiting list, Prosecute! And ask for the death penalty -- committing a felony (and that's what the false waiting list is) where someone dies is murder.

2. Give the VA medical centers to the towns where they're located and turn VA medical care into a card-based insurance system like Tricare.
 
Veterans aren't being treated as a protected class, they are being treated differently as a class of people, their rights are being circumvented by a bureaucracy and under the law that's discriminatory.
 
The VA does not willy nilly appoint fiduciaries for veterans. The vast majority of veterans with fiduciares asked that one be appointed. They are informed right up front that the appointment of a fiduciary will result in them being reported to NICS. Yeah, this is sorry. But that's the way its been for many years. There is no adjudication at all. It's an administrative function.

The US House has previously passed legislation eliminating the reporting of veterans with fiduciaries to NICS. Then the US senate failed to pass same. i was present several years ago when then US senator Coburn promised to eliminate the reporting of veterans with fiduciaries to NICS. Coburn lied to us; in the end he kowtowed to senator Schumer and nothing happened.

i sincerely hope that this legislation gets passed.
 
The real mystery to me is that the political party that supports assisted suicide, abortion, despises veterans and endorses every form of killing oneself you can imagine is "worried" when veterans kill themselves. The political left hates veterans, is it pathetic that they use their false concern for vets well-being as an excuse to steal someone's gun rights.

I personally support a law requiring all congressman and senators to pass a BAL test administered by a highway patrolman before being allowed on the floor. And, drug tests every six months to insure we are not being governed by crack heads and coke junkies. That would do more to save American lives and money than you could imagine.
 
alsaqr said:
The VA does not willy nilly appoint fiduciaries for veterans. The vast majority of veterans with fiduciares asked that one be appointed. They are informed right up front that the appointment of a fiduciary will result in them being reported to NICS. Yeah, this is sorry. But that's the way its been for many years. There is no adjudication at all. It's an administrative function.

The US House has previously passed legislation eliminating the reporting of veterans with fiduciaries to NICS. Then the US senate failed to pass same. i was present several years ago when then US senator Coburn promised to eliminate the reporting of veterans with fiduciaries to NICS. Coburn lied to us; in the end he kowtowed to senator Schumer and nothing happened.

i sincerely hope that this legislation gets passed.
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I'll ask you to prove your comments, how do you know that the vast majority of veterans ask for a fiduciary? Did you take a survey of veterans? Do you work for the VA and have access to some report on the issue? Personally I think that your statement is just empty rhetoric. Not all veterans are informed up front that they will be reported to NICS, that I know for a fact because of knowing a former Veteran's Service Representative with the VA that saw several veterans simply processed without even being told, they weren't aware that they were being assigned a fiduciary until they received a letter informing them of such. It's supposed to be policy that all veterans will be informed but like so many VA policies incompetent people simply don't follow the rules, I know that for a fact because of my own VA interactions. The VA has some really good employees but they also have some real bad employees and when the bad employees mishandle bad policies it gets really messed up for the veteran.
 
drial, the health car at the mpls mn and superior wi clinic is top tier. I dread any switch to local civilian hospital/clinic care.
.... I am careful about mentioning shooting though. if I slip I transition to trap shooting. seems to be acceptable. dc
 
"I'll ask you to prove your comments, how do you know that the vast majority of veterans ask for a fiduciary?"

Because i work with veterans, mostly older veterans. Some of them ask for fiduciaries. IME: The VA follows the fiduciary process to the letter. The veteran is told up front that the appointment of a fiduciary will result in his being reported to NICS. The veteran is also told in writing that he has a legal right to appeal. i do not know of one case where the veteran was not informed of his right to appeal.

http://www.benefits.va.gov/fiduciary/beneficiary.asp

Some veterans are assigned fiduciaries based on information given during the Compensation and Pension exam. If the vet claims to have service connected mental problems during the C&P exam then he/she can expect a fiduciary to be appointed should his claim be approved.

Yep, there is all kinds of stuff on these boards about the VA. Much of it is untrue.
 
Either way, a veteran should not be banned from owning firearms just because they have a designated payee (fiduciary) as long as they are not a danger to themselves or others. Same as with what was recently tried and repealed for people getting Social Security and use a designated payee.
 
alsaqr said:
"I'll ask you to prove your comments, how do you know that the vast majority of veterans ask for a fiduciary?"

Because i work with veterans, mostly older veterans. Some of them ask for fiduciaries. IME: The VA follows the fiduciary process to the letter. The veteran is told up front that the appointment of a fiduciary will result in his being reported to NICS. The veteran is also told in writing that he has a legal right to appeal. i do not know of one case where the veteran was not informed of his right to appeal.

http://www.benefits.va.gov/fiduciary/beneficiary.asp

Some veterans are assigned fiduciaries based on information given during the Compensation and Pension exam. If the vet claims to have service connected mental problems during the C&P exam then he/she can expect a fiduciary to be appointed should his claim be approved.

Yep, there is all kinds of stuff on these boards about the VA. Much of it is untrue.
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I doubt that most of the negative comments about are untrue, they might be inaccurate but I don't think that they are untrue. The fact is that very few VA admins follow all of the policies properly, some facilities do a better job than others but every facility has it's incompetent worker that either doesn't understand their job or simply interjects their own values in to the evaluation process. My wife and I are perfect examples of how things go wrong due to incompetent personnel. My anxiety claim; a medical issue that I was diagnosed with while in service, was in my medical records, I was treated for it while on active duty, I made a claim within 30 days of retirement for it, and even though I received my meds from the VA, was denied and it took me eight years of appeals to get it approved. My current claim for a presumptive was denied because the local office doesn't understand the difference between an undiagnosed illness and a chronic multi-symptom illness. My wife's claim for a compensable disability for her cancer of the cervix was denied (approved after two years of appeals) because they didn't find any evidence of her having cancer of the clavicle (the cervix is on one end of the female anatomy and the clavicle is on the other end).

Not all VA admins follow the fiduciary process to the letter, that's a fact that I know to be true because of close personal contact with a VSR. While you might not have seen a problem where you live I know for a fact that the VA admin office in my previous home state and my current home state don't always follow the policies to the letter, and that's not only in regards to the fiduciary process. Mostly because they have ignorant or misinformed workers that won't, can't, or don't choose to follow the rules. The VBA was created because of the great number of unfair and illegal decisions that are made by the VA. Generalities like yours (and mine for that matter) don't prove much, it's absolutely wrong to imply that you or I know how the majority of cases are managed, neither of us know for a fact how many fiduciary cases were mismanaged but since I know for a fact that at least two cases were mismanaged and you told us about a third, then it's obvious that it does happen and that you aren't correct when you say that all VA offices follow the fiduciary process to the letter. It's easy to see that these three cases are just the tip of the iceberg.
 
In both the cases of veterans and ssdi recipients, an easy solution is to set up a living trust prior to the person requiring a financial assistant. The checks go to a bank account in the name of the recipient, but owned by their trust, and any person the recipient designates can be a trustee and write checks on the account for the benefit of the trust beneficiary (the recipient). Up front costs are about the same as the eventual estate settlement costs through probate. Talk to a local trust attorney if you, or a loved one, are in this situation.
 
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