H&R Self Loader 25

[Johnm1]

The below tested my technical writing skills. It is written for the person who has a gun like mine. Despite my best attempt I don't think this will make any sense to someone not looking at their own pistol. EDIT: I had this moved to gunsmithing. Apparently there aren't many of these out there.

I'm hoping someone here has one of these and can look at thier action with the grips off and explain how the action functions after it is fired and the trigger still pulled back. The hammer on mine will follow the slide forward while the trigger is pulled back. The trigger pin is still pushing backwards on the sear bar until the trigger is returned to the forward position. I need to know how the sear bar rises over the trigger pin to return the sear to the locked position when the trigger is still held back.

Here is the pistol a H&R Self Loader in 25 ACP.



Here is an internet pic of the gun cocked and ready to fire along with the parts. As odd as it seems the little button on the back of the trigger pushes the silver sear bar backwards to release the sear. It looks odd but it does work. In this picture the sear bar is in the raised/cocked position.



Here is a picture of my gun after the hammer is released. Notice that the sear bar dropped to the fired position.



This is the same condition only with the trigger pulled.


At this point the slide pushes down on the sear and the sear is supposed to lever the sear bar up into the. Locked position. In order for this to happen the sear bar would need to be pushed above the trigger pin. That means, in these pictures, it would rise out of the picture so the sear bar coul move up and travel over the top of the trigger pin. There appears to be a ramp on the back side of the sear bar to accomplish this. Look at the seperate parts and you can see the ramp. There must be worn parts either on the trigger, the sear bar, or both. I'm hoping someone who has one can either. Confirm or explain how theirs works.

 

[Johnm1]

I forgot to add the picture of parts.



Magnify the sear bar and you can see the ramp.

 

[Waveski]

I've never seen a trigger guard dominate a profile like that.
Sorry - I know that I provided no help. Interesting pistol.

 

[lincen]

I've never seen a trigger guard dominate a profile like that.
Sorry - I know that I provided no help. Interesting pistol.

Some of the older pocket type handguns had larger trigger guards for those wearing gloves. I have one of these in 32acp and it is great little shooter !

The various designs of these early 32acp's are like art to me. With Browning dominating the patented handguns, competitors had to get really creative.

 

[Cornhusker77]

I dunno if the .32 is the same or not. I could look at mine when I get home if I can remember.
Looks like a broken grip panel?
Kind of common on those.
I got a set of reproduction grips, and I honestly can't tell the difference
https://www.vintagegungrips.com/product-category/categories-prod/vintage-gun-grips/?ap=h

 

[Johnm1]

The parts picture is from the internet. But I am very careful when taking the grips off.

 

[Johnm1]

I dunno if the .32 is the same or not. I could look at mine when I get home if I can remember.
Looks like a broken grip panel?
Kind of common on those.
I got a set of reproduction grips, and I honestly can't tell the difference
https://www.vintagegungrips.com/product-category/categories-prod/vintage-gun-grips/?ap=h

The 32 version is similar but not the same. I have one of those as well and a comparison didn't help me. Thanks for the off though.

 

[Monac]

I've never seen a trigger guard dominate a profile like that.
Sorry - I know that I provided no help. Interesting pistol.

Both the 25 and 32 H&R Self-Loaders were based on designs from Webley of England. That is a typical Webley trigger guard, designed to act as a spring and the key to taking the pistol apart. All the blowback Webley automatics used that system.

As Johnm1 says the 32 Self Loader is a different design, although still from Webley. It is striker fired, for one thing. I have never had a 25 Self Loader, so I can be no help,

 

[Johnm1]

I'm beginning to think there are not many out there.

If anyone is interested, here is a good article from th Unblinking Eye.

https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/H-R-Auto/h-r-auto.html

 

[Johnm1]

I learned a little bit more about the function of the H&R 25 Self Loader. The pin on the back of the trigger is not a fixed pin. It is actually hollow with a spring below it and it pushes down. Once I got it out I was able to clean out the hole and remove the rust from the spring and now it moves up and down with no resistance. This is a picture of my gun.



I noticed that the edge of the sear bar that the pin contacts is supposed to be square and as you might notice in the picture above that edge has worn smooth and rounded at the top. Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be a source for the 'sear bar' other than Numrich and they are out of stock. It is an odd way to trip a sear and an even odder way to re-cock the sear with the trigger pulled back. The pin pushes on the lower corner of the sear bar in the position it is shown in in the picture above. There is actually a thickened edge on the back side of that corner to help it make contact. Once the sear is released the sear bar drops down as shown in the below picture, the rearward movement of the slide pushes the hammer back down and that cams the sear bar upwards where the upper edge is sloped to push the trigger pin down as the sear bar moves upward to the cocked position. The picture below show the sear bar in the down/un-cocked position with the trigger pulled.

The sear bar is thinned at this point with a 'ramp' on the back side to help the pin go under the sear bar allowing the sear bar to return to the 'up'/cocked position. The little bit of material that is missing on the upper corner of the sear bar is just enough to not be able to reach the pin and push it down. I'll have to have the edge of the sear bar Tig welded to add material back and shape it to work.

FYI - I was able to confirm my assumption by temporarily adding material to that edge using epoxy and it did work. At least a couple of times it worked before the surface of the epoxy was distorted. Here is an internet picture of the back side of the sear bar.

​

You can see that the edge of the above sear bar is sloped and rounded. I'm not sure this one would work.

Here is a picture of what the sear bar should look like. This is also from the internet:



Notice how much more 'Square' the upper corner is than mine. I have to pull all of this stuff out of the air just by staring at it. There just isn't a lot written about these.

 

[BBBBill]

If you don't have a trusted welder experienced it doing TIG on small gun parts then I recommend Pullman Arms in Worchester, MA. They are the go to guys for many pro smiths who need expert welding. Whoever you use make sure to give them as much info as you can to help ensure a god job.

 

[Johnm1]

Thank you Bill.