H110 Winchester 296

[scythefwd]

Seeing in several forums that these are the same powders. hodgdons load data on their website seem to agree with that. Anyone have an official acknowledgement of this from hodgdon?

 

[steveno]

at one time I think there was a statement on the hodgdon website that they are the same or at least now they are the same. I always used the H-110 data for H-110 loads and if I was to use 296 I would use 296 data

 

[scythefwd]

Steve - Thats my intent.. but I like being informed. If you look at the 357 mag, 158gr xtp load data on data.hodgdon.com, you'll see its the exact same velocities, coal, and charge data for those two powders.

 

[evan price]

Ask Hodgdon via their customer service link on the website. I will confirm that they are the same powder as sold recently, but I'm just some anonymous yokel on the internet.

 

[Grumulkin]

If you buy Hodgdon's annual reloading magazine, you will find that many different loads that use H110 have IDENTICAL loads for Winchester 296. The same is true for Winchester 760/H414 and one or two other powders.

If they weren't the same powder, it would be impossible for that to happen. I contacted Hodgdon years ago about H110/Winchester 296 and they confirmed they were the same powder. They probably get a little tired of answering the same question over and over.

 

[scythefwd]

Grum - sent that email yesterday lol.

 

[osteodoc08]

Same same.

While were talking pistol powders....

HP-38/W231 also same same

Several charts floating around like the one below

ADI Name Hodgdon Name
AS25BP / Trail Boss Trail Boss
AS30N Clays
AS50N International Clays
AS70N Universal Clays
AR2205 IMR 4227 - H4227
AR2207 H4198
AR2215 IMR 4198
AR2219 H322
AR2206H H4895
AR2208 Varget
AR2209 H4350
AR2213 H4831
AR2213SC H4831SC
AR2217 H1000
AR2218 H50BMG
AR2225 Retumbo
Benchmark2 BenchMark

Winchester Name Hodgdon Name
Win 231 HP38
Win 296 H110

RWS Rhino Name Alliant Name
Rhino 10 (RP10) Rl-10x
Rhino 15 (RP15) Rl-15
Rhino 19 (RP19) Rl-19
Rhino 22 (RP22) RL-22
Rhino 25 (RP25) Rl-25

RWS Rhino Name Norma Name
RP9 Norma 200
RP11 Norma 201
RP14 Norma 202
RP15 Norma 203b
RP18 Norma 204
RP22 Norma MRP
RP30 Norma MRP-2


Norma Name Alliant Name
Norma 203b RL-15
Norma MRP Rl-22

Winchester Name Alliant Name
WXR Rl-22

 

[scythefwd]

nice chart man.

So next question.. how well does it meter?

 

[rondog]

Isn't most gunpowder made by St. Marks Powder Co. in St. Marks, FL, and merely marketed under various brand names? I've read that before, anyway.

http://www.wwpowder.com/history.html

 

[ReloaderFred]

Powders are made all over the world. I've got powders that were made in Australia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Canada, Australia and the U.S. A lot of the Winchester/Hodgdon powders are made by St. Marks Powder Company, but since it's a "world market", the only way you'll know where your powder is actually made is to look at the fine print on the jug.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Rule3]

Seeing in several forums that these are the same powders. hodgdons load data on their website seem to agree with that. Anyone have an official acknowledgement of this from hodgdon?

It is one of the most often asked questions, posts, threads discussions about powder on the "net"

I feel sorry for the folks at Hodgdon.

It is exactly the same powder. If a search is done you will find this to be true and documentation from St Marks Powder.

 

[Jim Watson]

As Fred says, powder is sourced from all over.

Accurate Arms was the worst about changing suppliers without notice. You could get the same label you were accustomed to and the powder would have an entirely different appearance. Because they were getting it someplace else and while the burn rate was close enough to use the same load data, the chemistry and granulation were different.

Hodgdon started out selling WWII surplus powder, had new powder made here there and yonder when surplus ran out, and has over the past several years been acquiring other companies. Hodgdon bought the US DISTRIBUTORSHIPS for IMR and Winchester powders. They do not own the powder mills in Canada and Florida, those are, or were the last time I looked them up, owned by General Dynamics.

For a while they kept the lineups separate, IMR coming out of Canada, H made in Australia, but have been confusing the issue with recent changes. IMR 8208 XBR is made in Australia. It gets worse, the H4227 label has been dropped but what you get in the IMR can is made in Australia. I think 4198 has gone the same way. Trail Boss is branded IMR but made in Australia.

 

[osteodoc08]

H110/296 meters very well for me, as all the ball powders I've used in the past.

Some of the extruded rifle powders I end up undercharging with the measure and trickling to meet the final weight.

 

[243winxb]

http://www.hodgdon.com/msds.html A MSDS may tell you who made the powder, but not always.

 

[rodregier]

I have a letter from Winchester on their letterhead from many years ago confirming the equivalency between H110 and W296 in addition to some other powder pairs.

Keep in mind there is a modest amount of lot to lot variance.
Also, loading and testing equipment can vary which will also account for some variance
in what is considered a maximum load by different responsible testers.

 

[Rule3]

From Australian Handloaders Guide

http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/equivalents.asp

The only difference between HP38 and Win 231 along with H110 and Win 296 is the name. Generally the Winchester name commands a little higher price

H110 and Win 296 meter like water.

 

[scythefwd]

is that to say it leaks everywhere and it wont meter accurately at all because it slips right around cylinder?

 

[Rule3]

is that to say it leaks everywhere and it wont meter accurately at all because it slips right around cylinder?

No I meant it, as it meters very well.

It is a fine ball powder I have used it in a RCBS Uniflow, The Lee Pro Auto Disc and yes, even the lowly Lee Perfect powder measure, Some folks complain that leaks but they have the screw to lose,

It does require a magnum primer or a Winchester Large Pistol which is good for regular and magnum.

I load a lot of 30 Caliber Carbine ammo with it.

OH, and here is the verification you requested 2006

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=186089

 

[cfullgraf]

is that to say it leaks everywhere and it wont meter accurately at all because it slips right around cylinder?

In a drum style powder measures like a Uniflow or Redding 10-X, no leakage to speak of.

Some of the Lee measures leak if the wiper or seals are not set correctly.

The slide bar powder dispenser on my MEC 600jrs leaks W296 fairly badly if I do not get the tension correct on reservoir bottle and then it still leaks a little.

Even with the little leakage, they all meter very well.

I do not know about the Dillon measures or the Lyman 55.

Hope this helps.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Ball (spherical) powders meter like water and I like using them.

As said above, W296 and H110 are identical confirmed by Hodgdon and St. Mark's Powder.
BUT, you should confirm that for yourself because also like said above, never trust anyone on the Internet for important information like that.

Just for your records, there are a handful of Hodgdon powder which are identical to Winchester powders. They are:
W231 = HP-38
W296 = H110
W540 = HS-6
W571 = HS-7 (both discontinued)
W760 = H414
In addition, WAP = Silhouette

Call, write or email Hodgdon and have them send you first hand information...

 

[Rule3]

Come on ARCH, it's been verified a million times.You and I know from the other forum how many times it was bantered about

The link I posted shows the email form Hodgdon.

 

[buck460XVR]

Steve - Thats my intent.. but I like being informed. If you look at the 357 mag, 158gr xtp load data on data.hodgdon.com, you'll see its the exact same velocities, coal, and charge data for those two powders.

A few years back, because of that info I contacted Hodgdon and asked if H110/W296 were the same powder. I was told in fact they are the same powder only labeled differently. A coupla years or so back, I contacted them and asked the same thing about H4227 and IMR4227 because published info was the same. I was told no, they are not the same and one should not use info from one to reload the other. (even tho it was THEIR info showing exactly the same charge rates and pressures for both). Few months back I e-mailed them again with the same question and was told this time....yes they are the same, altho we do not distribute H4227 anymore. Come to find out the new IMR4227 is the old H4227 renamed and the old IMR4227 is what was discontinued.

 

[454PB]

There is a full length article in the 2012 Hodgdon Annual Reloading Manual about H-110/WW296 and how they were manufactured by WW and distributed by both WW and Hodgdon. The "father" of H-110 was actually WC820, which was originally developed during WW II for the .30 Carbine.

 

[gamestalker]

I've been a big fan of 296 and H110 and have been using it for several decades with super great performance.

As for the difference between them, back when I started using them the data conflicted, but I think they might have been two difference animals back then? I don't really know though, because I only load with current published data. Now days it's been confirmed that they are the same powder. But even so, I don't deliberately mix them.

GS

 

[454PB]

Not according to the article. They have always been the same.

The only difference would be lot to lot variation.