Hammer follow causes...calling 1911tuner LOL

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rellascout

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I am not a gunsmith but know enough about 1911s to be dangerous.... LOL

So I purchased this pistol from pistolnut here on the forum. Great looking pistol isn't it.... http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=583407

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Too bad it has hammer follow.

So I ran 1911tuners test to determine if it was the sear spring or the or the hammer/sear interface.

No ammunition or magazine in the gun...lock the slide open. Pull the trigger and hold it full rearward. Release the slide and let it go to battery at full speed. If the hammer doesn't follow, it's probably the sear spring tension. If it does, it's a problem with the sear and/or hammer, and possibly the disconnect itself.

Hammer drops without the mag in and with the mag in with a snap cap. So I am assuming that it is the sear and hammer interface. Any other thoughts? Former owner of the pistol suggested that the firing pin safety had been removed and a spacer inserted and "maybe" that is the problem. Thoughts?

I contacted Novak who worked on the pistol in 1992 and they suggested that the old parts were used on the original trigger job and that they heat treating is gone with wear and the trigger job and is now effecting engagement. They will supply Tool Steel Hammer, Sear, & Disconnector w/ Trigger Job for $185. A C&S set for the same parts will cost me $100 or Wilson Tool steel parts for about $120.

With the issues on this pistol and its unknown mods post Novak should I just send it in to them. I am more of a shooter than a tuner... LOL
 
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$185 for a trigger job? That's way too much, even with the parts. A good sear and hammer retails for about $80-90. That's another $100 for the work. I've done dozens of 1911 trigger jobs and usually charge a third that.
You can buy the Wilson "Value Line" hammer and sear for $45 and they're good quality.

Buy a Wilson or Ed Brown hammer and sear and put them in yourself. Do the sear first and if that does the trick, send the hammer back.

Fit might be a problem, but the odds are it won't be needed. Before you take the gun to the range, do a full function check. Make sure the safety goes on all the way. Make sure the gun won't fire with the safety on or the grip safety out. Make sure it won't fire out of battery. Load some dummy rounds in the mag and jack them through as hard as you can to make sure the hammer isn't still following.

When you get to the range, load one round and fire. Everything normal? Slide locked back?

Now load two rounds. You get the idea.

And quit dropping the slide on an empty chamber!! Stop it!! The gun won't take that abuse for long without damage to the sear and the full-cock notch on the hammer.
 
All bets are of since someone else has monkeyed with it already, but the only time I experienced this (on a factory "match" pistol) I cured it with a slight bend on the sear spring to make sure sear returned returned fully. Took all of maybe 10 minutes and cost nada.
 
Anyone else have thoughts on the cause of this hammer follow. After a suggestion by lonestar49 I checked the travel adjustment screw and found that it has been removed. I never mess with these. I let the factory or smith set them and leave them alone so I did not think to look at it. Without the screw could it be the cause?

And quit dropping the slide on an empty chamber!! Stop it!! The gun won't take that abuse for long without damage to the sear and the full-cock notch on the hammer.
Click to expand...

I did it to test specifically because of the hammer follow. I do not do it routinely or repeatedly. 99% of my testing was done with a snap cap.
 
Half cock IIRC the gun is not in front of me. I will double check it later when I get home. Its been a long week. LOL

Falls when the trigger is pulled but stays back if you do not.
 
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I did it to test specifically because of the hammer follow. I do not do it routinely or repeatedly.
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Don't do it at all. You're testing for something that should never happen in the first place. Might as well drop it off a roof just once to see if it'll fire.

Dropping a 1911 slide on an empty chamber is like flipping the cylinder shut on a fine revolver. The gun wasn't designed for that kind of abuse. Damage will be done.
 
Dropping a 1911 slide on an empty chamber is like flipping the cylinder shut on a fine revolver. The gun wasn't designed for that kind of abuse. Damage will be done.
Click to expand...

Essentially true, but it is a legitimate test for followdown. It's not to be done on a regular basis...but occasionally in order to determine if there's a problem is acceptable.

Scout...Hold the trigger and cycle the slide slowly to see if the hammer will follow the slide. If it does, the disconnect isn't being pushed into the frame far enough to get off the sear. If it doesn't, it's jarring off as the slide hits.
 
Scout...Hold the trigger and cycle the slide slowly to see if the hammer will follow the slide. If it does, the disconnect isn't being pushed into the frame far enough to get off the sear. If it doesn't, it's jarring off as the slide hits.
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When cycling the gun slowly the hammer follows to the half cock notch. So the disconnect isn't being pushed into the frame far enough.

So since it is related to the disconnect what is the next step? I assume its related to the lack of the trigger overtravel screw, middle leg of the sear spring or is it the engagement of the disconnect and the sear. Does that sound correct? Again I am more of a shooter then a tuner.... :eek:
 
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It won't hold full cock, but the sear is resetting and catching the half-cock notch. Odd...

If you can employ a third hand...Pull the trigger and hold it there...rack the slide full rearward and hold it while an assistant uses a tool to push the disconnect into the frame...then ride the slide forward and see if the hammer will hold at full cock.
 
Using my third hand I pushed the disconnect into the frame, there is not much movement of the disconnect, with the slide all the way back and ride it forward the hammer stays back.
 
Sounds like ya gotchaself a bad disconnect. Either that, or the frame is ridin' too high for the center rail to push it down. Detail strip it. Slip the slide on it. Use a feeler gauge to check the clearance between the frame and the center rail.

I've seen the clearance gauge too wide after the rail has been polished up nice and slick. Looks good...but the gun don't work.

About .010 inch is good.
 
I cured it with a slight bend on the sear spring
Click to expand...

Tuner, Scout and wally: Isn't this the same thing Scout did with his third hand? IIRC, while tinkering with sear springs a lifetime ago, I *lightened* one too much, and had hammer follow. The obvious solution (then) was to simply re-curve the spring.
 
Mister2...Hammer follow when releasing the slide is most often a spring issue. When the center leg isn't working hard enough to keep the trigger from nudging the disconnect, the hammer will fall to half-cock. The difference here...and the red flag...was when scout held the trigger and the hammer wouldn't hold full cock. That's evidence that the disconnect isn't disconnecting the trigger and the sear.

For those following the thread who don't understand that statement...The trigger never touches the sear. The trigger presses on the disconnect...which on turn presses on the sear. When the slide moves backward and pushes the disconnect into the frame...into the "disconnected" positition, the trigger has no influence on the sear, and it's free to reset.
 
So with a little more time on my hands yesterday I detail stripped the pistol. Here is what I found. I do not have a set of calipers but to my eye the disconnector was a little short at the tip of the disconnector stem to the top of the paddle.. The other parts seemed to be in spec again to my "shooters" eye. The trigger looked good even without the travel set screw. I call pistolnut who is still telling me to swap out the 80 series parts and will not comment on any compensation and he stated that the pistol has never had the screw in it.

So I took apart another one of my 1911s and took the working disconnector out and put it in the Novak Colt. I then put it back together and tested the pistol. When testing the pistol with a snap cap in the mag, action locked back, holding the trigger when I release it the hammer stayed back. I did the other normal function tests and they all worked. The only part I did not do was drop the slide on a empty chamber. So I believe 1911tuner is correct. It is the disconnector.

I am ordering a Les Baer or Wilson part today unless someone has a better recommendation. Thanks again to 1911tuner we may not always agree on this pistol vs that pistol, Norinco vs RIA vs Colt cough cough :), but your experience and knowledge of how these things run is unmatched. We are lucky to have you hear on THR.

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sear-2.gif

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FWIW Scout, Kuhnhausen specs the OAL of the disconnector between 1.293"min and 1.302"max.
 
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