Handguns ... long bbl ...... powder .... how slow?

[P95Carry]

Thinking mostly here of Contender barrels .. in 12" to 14" length range ... but also maybe include 9 1/2" as per SRH.

Primary cal I am contemplating here is .44 mag ... tho I also consider .454. In fact ... might even throw in .357 mag too .. but that would relate in my case to a lever carbine in fact.

The question is ... just how slow a powder can we ''get away with'' when developing max loads? Obviously in the end most things are compromize and trade-off. Case capacity, bullet weight (and thus also effect in volume terms on case capacity) .... gun's inherent strength and all related to available barrel (and thus ''burn'') length.

So .... most usual choices come down to 2400, H-110, N-110 ...... and not usually anything significantly slower. If tho we have a generous barrel length to make good use of a slow burn ... then can we drive to those top end velocities better (and safer) by keeping initial pressure peaks down with (even) slower powders?

Now on the burn-rate chart .. the three powders I mentioned are right next to each other .... the Vit N-110 is effectively the first in the rifle powders series .. the fastest in that group. Now I have been playing with cast bullet rifle loads on and off .. and using IMR SR-4759 (I have a LOT of it!) .... it is only a tad slower than the others mentioned, tho maybe due to its good bulking properties (why it's good for rifle cast bullet loads) ...... it might not be able to properly make needed volume in the straight wall cases.

In terms then, of what I also have to ''play'' with ... my next available would be N-133 .. a great powder recommended very much for .223 . suits it well IMO. But maybe here we are too far into the rifle powders slowness.

So .. just throwing out things here ... mainly to see if there is any feedback from others who have successfully used slower powders than the usual .... for their ''hand cannons''.??

Remember .. I am talkin MAX loads ....... but SAFE too. I am not a ''peak MV at any price'' freak .... just wanting safest max potential.

 

[redneck2]

FWIW....

max loads vs. powder speed seem to be a function of case capacity, bullet weight, and to a degree case configuration more than barrel length.

The rate that smokeless burns seems to be a function of pressure. As pressure increases, it shortens the burn time (and as a result raises the pressure) at a seemingly logrythymic rate. The faster the powder, the faster the pressure builds. 8 grains of Unique may be fine, but 8 grains of Bullseye would leave little pieces of metal all over the landscape and mebbe some in your body.

Once you get to a "too slow" powder, the pressure never gets high enough to get a complete burn. Longer barrel doesn't help. By the time the bullet gets to the 18" point in a 20" barrel, the powder has already burned, or the pressure has dropped to the point that it won't burn.

going from a 4" barrel to an 8" barrel (or even rifle barrel for that matter) wouldn't change powder as much as a significant change in bullet grain weight. Handloader magazine had an article some time back that showed that most of the powder is used up in the first 2 to 3 inches of barrel. I still didn't understand it all, but they have all types of very sophisticated test equipment and all I have is my opinion....I'll go with their scientific tests

I wouldn't put too much stock in changing one or two places on a powder burn chart. Go to 4 different sources and you may end up with 4 different relative burn rates. Each lot of powder differs slightly which explains the shuffle in the standings.

Every time someone asks about powder recommendations here, they get mebbe 6 or 8 brands/types. Seems like there's a lot of choices that will work well.

I use H-110/WW-296 for heavy stuff (45LC "Ruger Only" and .454) because (1) it works well (2) it's what the dealer had in stock (3) it meters consistently YMMV

 

[P95Carry]

YMMV

Thx red ... reckon maybe it's always gonna be a case of ''OMWAV'' ....... (Our Mileages Will Always Vary!!) ..... ''Our'' meaning pretty much all of us!!

Anyways ... just fishin for other's thoughts here ......... doubt I'll change from my ''tried and tested's too much''.

 

[Black Snowman]

Magnum pistol loads really seem to like H110, especially if you have a longer barrel since it was made for a carbine, in fact THE carbine to begin with. It's fairly slow burning, hard to ignite but also difficult to over-pressure. It just dosen't seem to spike as bad as some other powders.

I think Kamicosmos has used my Chrony to get speed from both his Redhawk (7" barrel?) and his Contender with a 14" barrel both in .44 Mag.

As I recall it was nearly a 25% jump in velocity but I can't remember the exact numbers. Maybe he still has them written somewhere.

Anyway, H110 for full power pistol magnums for me. Not only is it usually the top velocity for the lowest pressure, you get that really fun fireball and distinct but not unpleasent smell

 

[caseydog]

Hiya Chris ! , check out this link and look for 44mag(rifle) and 357 mag (rifle) , enlightening to say the least ! I have an old printed DuPont manual and discovered this data some time ago and had to check the online version to see if it was still included, a few of the loads have changed but for the most part the data is good. In particular look at velocity vs. pressure for 4198 in the 44, talk about a good low pressure load ! For the most part I use h-110 , but the 44 carbine data is interesting ( i have both 44 and 357 in the carbines) . Ray

edited to add : all the data I referred to is in the C U P section of the manual

http://www.imrpowder.com/pdf/IMR_rifle.pdf

 

[P95Carry]

Hey Ray! Up late I see!!

Thx for the link - that is one of the .PDF's I hadn't found .. more than useful. All data is gratefully accepted! Just wish I had the time to do all the experimenting I'd like.

Guess you had plenty of the white stuff up there ..... now looks like loada rain to add to the already saturated ground! Look fwd to a meet sometime.

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Just thought .... if you are likely to be over Reynoldsdale any time ... let me know and see if ya can't swing by here while in area??