Handguns vs long guns

[Hungry Seagull]

Regarding the wording, I want people to take my posts with a grain of salt. I have no reason to think that words alone will be sufficient go gather sheeple who mindlessly accept it all. I hope that is never the case. I want people to stand up to me and say... this is A, you said B and C is the evidence you are wrong/right etc. Or even suggest a better way.

Communication is great online, but there is alot lost because it is not face to face.

 

[The Wiry Irishman]

It seems to be the exact opposite here with me and my 20-something friends. I'm the only one that seems to be into pistol marksmanship and collecting while everyone else's interests are in the area of tacticool (or milsurp, depending on income) rifles.

 

[Ed Ames]

Concealed carry weapons are typically "Just In Case". If you face a threat that justifies a rifle you should look closely at your lifestyle because you are probably doin' something wrong.

Nothin wrong with it, but hmmm...

 

[Duke of Doubt]

qwert65: "Duke, my position is that in an urban setting handguns are more useful then longguns, Now, everyone here, myself included would rather have a longun in a fight however, handguns were invented for a reason and that is portability. If you want to carry around a brief case 6mos a yr, and keep your coat buttoned the other 6 have at it."

Well, since I generally do anyway (substitute ruck for case when not carrying papers), I may as well stick a gun in there if I'm not going to court, city hall, etc.

"But this "A short, light rifle is quite useful in an urban environment"
is incorrect for 99% of the urban population. I attemped to illustrate this with my one gun question. Would you honestly say that you would reccomend folding stock carbines to your average city dweller if they could afford one gun?"

Yes. First of all, my original comment and disagreement in this thread was with the blanket statement above that rifles are "useless" in an urban environment. I think they are useful, though not always preferable to handguns. Best to have plenty of both. But if, as you asked, you could ONLY have ONE, then yes, I would say rifle, provided you legally and practically may carry it concealed, as both of which I may.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Ed Ames: "If you face a threat that justifies a rifle you should look closely at your lifestyle because you are probably doin' something wrong."

Or something right!

 

[qwert65]

Best to have plenty of both.

This we can agree on

 

[Ed Ames]

LOL, yeah... really wrong or really right, but certainly abnormal.

You are far from alone in needing to think and speak judiciously in your professional life. Maybe we react to that requirement in different ways. After a few years of cautious speech I realized that it was a PROFESSIONAL requirement but a personal liability. Absent a relationship (complete with remuneration) you have no basis to expect professional performance from me, and I have no obligation to provide anything to you. You are responsible for your actions, even actions taken because of posts you read on the interwebs.

Oh, and since I didn't catch it the first time around, you said, "Yes. First of all, my original comment and disagreement in this thread was with the blanket statement above that rifles are 'useless' in an urban environment."

No, your original disagreement was with my statement that, "I grew up in an urban environment and pistols were 100 times as useful as rifles." Useless came in my reply to you, when I said, "Rifles are next to useless for city dwellers in a non-wartime environment..."

You realize this pretty well discredits your whole "I've got to be precise because I may be talking to a jury" thing, right?

 

[ChronoCube]

Wow y'all are taking this way too seriously. I was talking about people's perceptions rather than the effectiveness of pistols vs rifles. The people I'm talking about are not into guns. They go to the shooting range for fun, just as they would do any other activity. They don't consciously think of using pistols because of tactical effectiveness. They just go for the handguns exclusively, whenever they decide to go shooting. And I surmised that was because of TV/movie perceptions.

Maybe I should have chosen a different thread title -_-;;;

 

[Hungry Seagull]

6 months ago we could have cared less about guns. We talked about it from time to time but we were not "Gun owners" i.e. gun people.

Because we are now Gun Owners, whatever the weapon may be, pistol, long gun, shotgun etc. We have a responsibility to take things carefully and seriously. We are to share with others Rights, Responsibilities and Needful things related to Gun Owner ship.

Because of this and that We tend to look at life, people and things and thier value a little differently now.

There was a show about hunting recently on DTV. The hunter who happened to be a female was in a tree stand with a very large Brown bear down below. She was able to take it with the Bow that was used at the time. It was fortunate for her that she did not miss because bears climb trees.

Life has a way of being very rich and simple when it comes down to life itself; when it involves shooting for hunting to take food, Living History, for sport or for defense Guns of all kinds are important and need to be taken carefully, not lightly.

I dont want to come across as a who hides in a dark place counting ammuniton by name and measuring powder by number while examining charts, newspapers and Law docs. I dont have time to live like that.

Cheers.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Hungry Seagull: "I dont want to come across as a who hides in a dark place counting ammuniton by name and measuring powder by number while examining charts, newspapers and Law docs. I dont have time to live like that."

Good grief! Was that you watching me today?

 

[Hungry Seagull]

No Mr Duke, You're influence extends to how one uses words. Im attempting to draw a good picture of the idea with words.

Relax, Im not "Watching you" =) no more or less than everyone else on these forums.

 

[Hoxviii]

A lot of it is perception.

There's a guy that frequents one of the ranges I do, and he always carries his rifle in a guitar case. He lives in an apartment complex and doesn't want his neighbors to know he owns a rifle.

With how many people seem to be anti-gun anymore, i can understand why people tend towards pistols for the "my neighbors don't need to know" factor.

Personally, i prefer rifles and shotguns to pistols. I'd rather have the confidence and ability to neutralize a threat at any reasonable distance, than to have the confidence that I could neutralize one out to 25 yards (if even that, with the way a lot of people "practice" any more).

 

[jakemccoy]

How can a person think a rifle is generally more practical than a handgun in an urban environment in America today?

Are we talking "I'd rather take public transportation than drive" urban?

Are we talking "$35 parking per day" urban?

Are we talking "bumping into people on the bus" urban?

Are we talking "bum on every corner" urban?

Are we talking "people freaking out at the sight of a rifle" urban?

If yes, then there's simply no way a rifle is more practical than a handgun an American urban environment today.

You may be a gun expert. However, if you don't spend much time in an urban environment, you really can't have a feel for this topic. Toting around a rifle in a densely packed urban environment in America is super impractical.

Even in an urban home, a handgun is going to be more practical. You're going to want to keep that thing concealed from your neighbors. That includes people peeping into your condo when you swing open your front door. It would just take one squeamish neighbor catching a glimpse of your rifle leaning against your couch in your living room. Then, your troubles would begin. There are simply too many people who aren't like you who will not understand. A rifle is too much trouble in most urban situations.

 

[solareclipse]

Finding places to shoot long guns is downright frustrating/impossible/inconvenient in most locations. People tend to like what they can often use. Besides in urban settings, rifles arent popular. They just tend to appeal rural people who actually use them for something...... like on a farm.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Urbanites know no secrets. Have you climbed into a Mass transit bus with 60 aboard and have to inhale to collapse ribcage to get that last seat between two people who will most certainly feel the mass under your shoulder?

Carrying anything other than shopping bags is almost impossible sometimes downtown. Really downtown, not like the suburbs.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

jakemccoy: "Even in an urban home, a handgun is going to be more practical. You're going to want to keep that thing concealed from your neighbors. That includes people peeping into your condo when you swing open your front door. It would just take one squeamish neighbor catching a glimpse of your rifle leaning against your couch in your living room. Then, your troubles would begin. There are simply too many people who aren't like you who will not understand. A rifle is too much trouble in most urban situations."

My apartment contains multiple rooms, more than one of which is inaccessible (and invisible) to guests and neighbors. Even when I lived in a studio apartment years ago, I had a closet. And curtains. Just because you live in a city does not mean you do not select your apartment with great care, giving attention to sight lines, vantage points, security, visibility, concealment, et cetera.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Hungry Seagull: "Urbanites know no secrets. Have you climbed into a Mass transit bus with 60 aboard and have to inhale to collapse ribcage to get that last seat between two people who will most certainly feel the mass under your shoulder? Carrying anything other than shopping bags is almost impossible sometimes downtown. Really downtown, not like the suburbs."

Take the train. Or a cab. I haven't ridden a public transit bus in over a dozen years. Nasty things.

Even at rush hour in the downtown of a major American city, a small, military-style rucksack is not at all difficult to carry, nor is a laptop computer case (slightly modified internally to carry firearms and ammunition rather than computer crap), a briefcase, or a reinforced canvas shopping bag sleeved for firearms and ammunition.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Maybe it's because of Hollywood's influence?

Bingo

 

[Ed Ames]

Hollywood must be part, especially if we're talking about things people rent. I think contact is a bigger part. Or maybe they are just different forms of contact.

A friend of mine owns several pistols and a 10/22. "Not that interested in rifles." I went shooting with him yesterday, handed him a .223 semi auto "black rifle"...afterwards he said something like, "I gotta get one of those! I would've been happy just shooting that all day if I could've." Big grin on his face... and contact was the only change.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Real world contact is indeed key.

A young relative of a shooting buddy had little interest at first in shooting my vintage military rifles, preferring the black plastic stuff which resembled the guns found in his video games. But the kid was not stupid. He eventually remarked on how I could reload my SKS a lot faster than an AR or even an AK by using stripper clips through the top, and how the bolt actions of the long rifles could be worked quickly and also could be loaded much quicker via stripper clips than detachable magazine rifles. He also noticed the much greater power and accuracy of the full battle cartridge long rifles. My "funny old guns," which he previously had considered relics of a darker age, were now, in his mind, interesting and fun, as well as effective fighting instruments. I later heard him remark on how the video games "get it SO wrong."

 

[HK G3]

I'm a 20-something urban shooter, and I definitely prefer shooting long guns over handguns.

I practice my handgun because it is also fun, but mostly because I see it as practical - I CC and feel that it is my responsibility to be as proficient as possible with it. My favorite gun to shoot, however, is my EBR - I love long-distance ironsights shooting. And watching the plastic water jugs explode off in the distance is very rewarding. Basically, if told I could only shoot one or the other during a trip to the range, I'd choose rifle 9/10 times. My other friends are the opposite, however, they definitely prefer handguns over rifles and shotguns. I don't blame them on the shotguns though, slugs and buck can leave bruises (never fun for new shooters), and when using cheapo birdshot, unless you have clays, it's not a whole lot of fun to shoot since you just point in the general direction of your target within a certain distance, and you hit it.

For home defense, I will most likely grab my rifle if I know that there is a threat present within my home. It served me well during a previous (and hopefully last) attempted break-in, so I will always be partial to a rifle for HD, especially since there were multiple intruders, and had I needed to shoot, I'd want the higher ammo capacity and increased ease in aiming. If, however, it's a bump in the night, or a knock on my door at an odd hour, I grab the handgun and investigate.

I think that both long guns and handguns have their roles to play in self-defense in an urban environment. Ideally, everyone serious about personal protection should own one of each. This is, of course, just my humble opinion

 

[mstirton]

"Wow y'all are taking this way too seriously. I was talking about people's perceptions rather than the effectiveness of pistols vs rifles. The people I'm talking about are not into guns. They go to the shooting range for fun, just as they would do any other activity. They don't consciously think of using pistols because of tactical effectiveness. They just go for the handguns exclusively, whenever they decide to go shooting. And I surmised that was because of TV/movie perceptions."

I was thinking the same thing - these guys aren't prepping for any real life emergency or taking into account defensive practicality. I bought a handgun before a rifle when I started shooting. I wasn't thinking about whether it was the best option for my urban situation. I have gone back and forth as to which was my favorite at the range and now it seems to be long guns. When I get a chance to start practicing IDPA, it will most likely be handguns again. Someone earlier hit the nail on the head when suggesting handgun shooting offers more instant and visible gratification. It's a little explosion in your hands and doesn't hurt your shoulder. Rifles, although more accurate, tend to take more concentration, skill, and technique to get there. Some new shooters just want to make loud noises and holes in a target 5 yards away instead of actually practicing to improve.

 

[Milkmaster]

My answer would depend on a lot of things, including whether and what I could carry concealed.

I agree...in my home and not carrying it would be a 12 shotgun.

Carrying concealed would be a pistol of course!