Handloading 357 magnum and 38 special

[lckdnldd]

I have a Ruger GP100 on order and want to handload cartridges for it. After a long hiatus, I picked up the loading addiction again. When I first started handloading about 30 years ago it was for 9mm and 38 special wadcutters using W231. For the last six months I have been reloading .45 auto 230 gr.cast LRN bullets using IMR 4756 with a Lee Classic Turret press. I have worked up a load that I am happy with for plinking which is pretty much all that I load for now. I also have some IMR 7625 but I have not tried it yet. I would like to stick with cast lead bullets and the powders I mentioned for loading 38 special and 357 magnum if possible. I found load data for both using these powders but I wanted to see if anyone else have tried them. I had no problems loading cast lead bullets for 38 special back in the day. While researching the last few days I ran across a few posts on different forums that stated 357 magnum was known to cause leading issues. Of course there are many post saying lead bullets in general causes leading issue but I have not found that to be true if the load is worked up correctly. I am interested in what others might suggest for reloading these two calibers as far as powder, primers, and bullets. Preferably something that can be used for both. I am still in the process of researching the subject but I wanted to post my questions here because I know I will get some straight answers. Tips and suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If your lead bullet fits the bore correctly you will see little to no leading. If the pressures you generate are correct for the hardness of the bullet you will see little to no leading. If the lube is correct for the application it will aid in not seeing any leading.

Just a note, Hodgdon is discontinuing all 3 SR powders at the end of 2014 so don't get too attached to SR7625 and SR4756 unless you have a half dozen 8lb jugs stored away.

 

[lckdnldd]

Thanks for the response ArchAngelCD. I have about a years worth of the IMR powders I mentioned but I am hoping some 231 or HP38 shows back up before I run out. I agree if the load is worked up correctly there should be minimal leading if any. I was just curious if maybe there was something different about the 357 mag. I read at least 7 posts last night on different forums about the 357 magnum having leading issues with cast bullets. If I am looking for info on a particular topic on the internet I have a 3 three post rule. If there are three different posts on three different forums giving the same or close to the same info on a topic I am researching. I will dig deeper into the topic and ask a question on three different forums that I am a member of and that I know have informed members. This forum being one of them. Then I might, I say might believe the info....

 

[rcmodel]

Leading results from the three things archangleCD mentioned.

But, some guns lead for various reasons, including a rough, or copper jacket fouled bore.

Clean the bore throughly squeaky clean with copper solvent, before beginning.

Other then that.

There is no reason a .357 would lead any worse then a .38.

They are the same thing except for case length when loaded to the same pressure & velocity.

rc

 

[lckdnldd]

Thanks rcmodel. Any suggestions on what powder if any would be good for both in your experience? I know 231 is decent for 38 special because I have used it before but from what I have read in the last few days 357 mag is served better with others and most of those I know little if any about. My experience with anything but 231 and 4756 is limited. I am just fishing for opinions so I can get a line on what works the best for plinking.

 

[Hondo 60]

One thing rcmodel & ArchAngelCD did not mention is a carbon fouling ring in each chamber.

lckdnldd, you mentioned loading .38 Special & .357 magnum for your GP100.

When firing 38 Spls it will leave a carbon ring.
Because the 38 case is shorter than a 357, it will leave that ring lower than what the 357 would.
This can make it difficult to seat a 357.
Just a few strokes with a cleaning rod will do, but you need to be cognizant of that lower ring while cleaning.

I hope this makes sense.

Congrats on the GP100 - I have one myself & it's everything I need for SD/HD.

 

[lckdnldd]

Thanks Hondo 60. Yes that makes perfect sense. I had not thought of that but when I read your post I remembered I had that issue with a High Standard Double Nine I owned years ago. Wished I still had it.

 

[41 Mag]

I can't put it any plainer than how ArchAngelCD put it.

I am loading cast in two different GP-100's and size to .358" for them both. I have run everything from mouse fart DEWC's and HBWC's up to full blown magnum loads using 2400, AA-9, and 296 through them both with no issues regarding leading.

The alloy I have been using the most lately runs right about a 12BHN and like mentioned is not showing any signs of leading even when loaded to around 1350fps with some 160gr HP's. That said the load I am using with AA-9 isn't quite as snappy as what can be seen with some of the faster powders. While I DO get higher velocity I am not really slamming them in the rear as hard as if I were using a top end load of say Unique or Bullseye. That simply from a pressure related standpoint.

I use several alloys for a variety of loads using the softest for the lower velocity stuff like the DEWC's and HBWC's. then up to around a 14 BHN for the clip on wheel weight alloy I use for most of the solid SWC's and RFN's. Some of the latter use a GC but I cannot absolutely say it is necessary, but I put them on anyway.

The lube I am using is pretty hard to beat in both price and performance results. It is made by White Label Lubes and is called Carnuba Red. I cannot say in all honesty that it isn't being used on some of the commercial bullets but I have seen several brands with red lube in the grooves. If your buying commercial cast you could always ask to find out.

If I were to offer up a powder suggestions for loading up the .357's, I would say go with Accurate if you can find it, either the 2,5,7, or 9 will get you good velocity, and accuracy in a variety of loads and bullet weights. From there I would suggest 2400 for mid to magnum loads and Unique or Universal for the lighter to mid range stuff, with Bullseye or 231 on the light loads.

On the shooting of 38's then 357's, especially if loading cast, it will be the lube that gives you the most grief when switching between the two. The 38's will leave you with a lube rings which can burn into place and is a bit harder to get out, but will still be pretty easily removed using a bristle brush and short handle. I admit that I don't shoot many 38's through my GP's and usually when I DO they are usually loaded with shot using the Speer shot capsules. I have a real nice old Colt Army Special that I shoot the majority of my 38 loads through. I do however load some really light 38 type loads in .357 cases to avoid the lube ring since sometimes when I am shooting I load right back up with top end loads, just in case I run across a hog or two while up at the farm.

Hope this helps

 

[Sunray]

The only time you'll get leading is if you try to drive a cast bullet too fast. Not likely to happen with either of the SR powders.
The lube gunk ring 'issue' goes away if you load .357 cases to .38 velocities. (My GP hasn't ever seen anything but cast bullets at .38 148 grain WC velocities. Had it since the GP first came here 30 some years ago.) As mentioned, it's not really a big deal anyway. Just a bit of a nuisance. A .45 brush cleans it out with no fuss.

 

[lckdnldd]

Thanks for your time to all who have posted here. Lot's of good information. I purchased the GP100 on the easy payment plan so, I won't have it in my hands until December. I know I am going to handload for it so instead of chomping the bit for three months waiting, I figured I would use the time to research and maybe get set up to load 357 mag./38 special. I would much rather shoot cast lead loads than the factory stuff. It is all I shoot in my .45 auto. I have not started casting my own yet. I have been purchasing bullets from a vendor. Thanks again.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The only time you'll get leading is if you try to drive a cast bullet too fast.

Sorry but that's not true. You will probably see more leading pushing a hard bullet too slowly than pushing it too fast. Hard bullets at low pressures/velocities will not expand to full the barrel and the hot gases can and will melt the sides of the bullet leaving A LOT of leading in the barrel.

Even if you push a soft bullet too hard you might not see and leading to speak of if the bullet fills the barrel well and if you don't run out of lube before the bullet leaves the barrel.

I would venture to say there is more leading caused by hard bullets at low speeds than any other leading problem.

 

[lckdnldd]

I was under the impression improper bullet size ( lack of obturation ) is what causes a lot of leading issue. Which corresponds to what I believe you are saying ArchAngelCD?

I don't worry to much about .45 cases stretching or 38 special for that matter but do 357 mag cases need to be trimmed at all?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I don't worry to much about .45 cases stretching or 38 special for that matter but do 357 mag cases need to be trimmed at all?

I have never trimmed or even measured a case used to load revolver ammo. IMO it's just no necessary.

 

[lckdnldd]

The closest I come to measuring .45 auto cases is sorting them by manufacturer. It seems to give me a more consistent COL. I just wondered about the 357 mag because of the higher pressures. I may end up with a 357 rifle down the road

 

[ljnowell]

Sorry but that's not true. You will probably see more leading pushing a hard bullet too slowly than pushing it too fast. Hard bullets at low pressures/velocities will not expand to full the barrel and the hot gases can and will melt the sides of the bullet leaving A LOT of leading in the barrel.



Even if you push a soft bullet too hard you might not see and leading to speak of if the bullet fills the barrel well and if you don't run out of lube before the bullet leaves the barrel.



I would venture to say there is more leading caused by hard bullets at low speeds than any other leading problem.

I concur. I would go one step further and say if the fit is sufficient hardness is even less important.

Being a Missouri bullet customer I used to keep two different hardness 158gr LSWC. One for light 38s and one for 357 mag with 2400. Running low on bullets near the end of a bullseye season and needing practice ammo I used the BHN18 bullets in my light(3.5gr AA#2 which is below starting) practice loads, expecting leading.

I got none of the sort. Since the bullets properly fit the throats and bore the harder bullet was fine. On the other side of that coin, I have loaded the BHN12 cowboy #9 bullet to well over 1500fps in my 7 1/2" Blackhawk. No leading at all because the fit was good, the lube was good, and it sealed up properly.

I think that with proper alloy, fit, and lube, there is no "too fast" in regards to handguns and lead.

 

[Twiki357]

I cast my own from wheel weights for 148g WCs and 158g SWCs and in 50 years I’ve never had a leading problem. As for powder, I generally use Bullseye or Red Dot for 38’s and 2400 or 4227 in 357’s. But there are many other good powders available for them.

 

[lckdnldd]

What primers do you use for those two powders? From what I have read most use standard small pistol primers for some powders and magnum primers for others. Most of the 357 mag data in the reloading manuals I have tell you which primers for which powders. Ordinarily I try to go with the manuals suggestions. What I would like to know is if there is a hard fast rule for using only magnum or standard primers? Ok, to be more specific, I use only large primer brass and large pistol primers for .45 auto. It seems that the 38 special cases use small pistol primers. At least the ones I have on hand. Would I need to have both small pistol primers and small magnum primers on hand or can I use only small pistol primers for most recommended 357 mag powders? I have no desire to work up max loads for 357 mag. I will most likely be shooting 38 specials most of the time for plinking and 357 mag for HD practice as I plan on using the GP100 as a bedside firearm and loading it with factory HD loads. Basically, when I work up a load for 357 mag I will be trying to get close to the factory HD loads (125 gr GDHP) in performance for practice drills.