Handloading LHBWC Using Trail Boss Powder

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pabner

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I am currently reloading .32 S&W Long with 98g Speer LHBWCs and .38 Special with Speer 148g LHBWCs using Bullseye powder. My wife and son want to learn how to reload but I am concerned about safety using Bullseye powder. It would be easy for a beginner to double load powder.

This led me to Trail Boss powder. I have never used TB before but the increased volume should eliminate the possibility of double loads. My question is about the formula for using TB. I understand the “fill to the base of bullet and use 70% as a starting charge formula” but does that apply to a hollow base wadcutter? Do I use the base of the wadcutter the same as the base for any other bullet? I have read the warning about NEVER compressing TB but the hollow base wadcutter leaves an open space above the base of the bullet.

Anyone have any experience hand loading hollow base wadcutters with Trail Boss?
 
There was a thread last year about it, someone had loaded HBWC's with TB, can't remember who. Try a search.
 
If you're looking for a safe load to teach with why are you willing to take a chance on compressing a powder that must not be compressed by trying to fill the hollow base under a bullet?

If you're teaching new reloaders one of your first lessons should be to always use published load data from a trusted source and not to make things up.
 
I apologize for the miss communication. I was seeking clarification of how to calculate a load for a hbwc using TB Powder. I want a safe load not a hot one. Sounds like a hbwc is calculated to the base like all other bullets.
 
Figure out where the end of the skirt sits in the case and then load Trail Boss to that level.

But I've been there and everywhere else with TB. It does not produce the kind of consistent accuracy Bullseye delivers. I suggest you try 3 grains with that bullet and don't look back. It is pretty easy to distinguish 3 grains vs 6 grains in a .38 case. 3 grains will give you 775 FPS or so. It is plenty safe and way more accurate than 2.7/8 grains people swear by. The Speer HBWC is a different animal than the rest. It has a unique coating, kinda like clear laquer. It likes more Bullseye than usual.
 
Most any load you come up with for a WC or HBWC will use a tiny charge. A double charge of TB will be just as hard to see as a double charge of BE or Clays.

I don't like blind loading of revolver cartridges, too much room for a double charge.
 
I'm guessing you haven't tried loading a double charge of Trail Boss. You physically can't in .38 Special. (It is really that bulky--4.2 grains is right up to the base of a typical 158 lead bullet.)

When I work with a powder, I deliberately double charge a case to see what it looks like. (Of course I empty it back out.) Trail Boss was completely full and spilling over the sides onto my bench. (This, incidentally, is why I gave away the Bullseye Powder I bought to try--3 or 6 grains of dense, black colored powder in a dark case is virtually indistinguishable.)
 
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I'm guessing you haven't tried loading a double charge of Trail Boss. You physically can't in .38 Special. (It is really that bulky--4.2 grains is right up to the base of a typical 158 lead bullet.)
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If you read the thread we are talking about deep seated hollow base wadcutters, a very different situation than the typical 158 LRN/SWC load.

There is very little room under a .38 spl HBWC, and since TB cannot be compressed, that limits the charge greatly. I don't think a double charge will reach the case mouth.
 
I realize that we are discussing 148 wadcutters. My point is that 4.2 is 100% case fill with a 158, which would mean there's no reasonable way to get a 148 deep seated wadcutter in on top of 4.6 grains of it. (I would guess 4.6 would be filled to about 1/4" away from the top of the case mouth.)
 
PO2Hammer,
Trail boss is like no other smokeless powder you've ever used. It was specifically designed to fill the large cases that were originally loaded with Black Powder. It is extremely bulky like Black Powder, you have to see it to believe it. It's actually so bulky that there's only 9oz of powder in the jug that usually holds 16oz of powder.
 
Master Blaster said:
Don't "calculate" a load with any smokless powder. USE PUBLISHED DATA that has been pressure tested. Hodgdon has the data in their website for FREE.
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Actually, with Trail Boss, you can. It's the only smokeless powder out there that if there isn't any published data for a given cartridge/bullet combo you can actually make up your own (within reason) as long as you don't compress the powder.

According to Hodgdon (distributor for IMR powders), the formula - it's published in their manuals and works for any handgun or rifle cartridge using bullets that are appropriate to that caliber/cartridge - fill the case with Trail Boss to the point that the base of a seated bullet would be and weigh that powder. Call that your MAX load (if you compress the load you may get erratic burning and inconsistent results).

Next, take 70 percent of that MAX weight and call that your starting load. (This isn't really very critical and half a grain or so more or less won't create a problem).

Work up from the starting load to the MAX load in .1 grain increments until you find your best accuracy and that's all there is to it.

According to Hodgdon, it's literally impossible to pack enough of those little bulky donuts into a cartridge to exceed the SAAMI safe pressures for that cartridge.

I've been using it in every caliber I load for and have had excellent results.

Don't believe me? Get last year's Hodgdon reloading magazine/manual and you'll find the same info. Remember, though, this ONLY WORKS WITH TRAIL BOSS. Don't try it with any other powder.
 
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PO2Hammer,
Trail boss is like no other smokeless powder you've ever used. It was specifically designed to fill the large cases that were originally loaded with Black Powder. It is extremely bulky like Black Powder, you have to see it to believe it. It's actually so bulky that there's only 9oz of powder in the jug that usually holds 16oz of powder.
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Yes, I know, my powder measure is full of it right now.

However the discussion here is about HBWCs in .38 and .32.

With a .38 spl and a Speer HBWC seated to within .010" of the case mouth there is only room for about 2.3 grains of TB. A double charge, 4.6 grains, does not reach the case mouth. In fact it is ~3/8" below the case mouth, so a double charge of TB can be missed just as easily as a double charge of Clays or anything else.

How this applies to 158 SWC/RN charges of TB I don't understand. The OP is asking about double charges with deep seated HBWC's, not SWC/RN seated long.
 
Why don't you try Unique? I think with a wadcutter it'd be pretty difficult to double charge as these bullets use so much case volume. Besides, I'd rather teach a new reloader how to detect and avoid double charges rather than insulate them from the possibility.
Many times, I do as Waywatcher and deliberately double charge a case so I'll know what to look for. Then after charging 50 cases, I shine a flashlight in them individually and check for a double charge.

35W
 
How'bout 3.3 grains of IMR PB? That take up something close to 70% of case volume.
 
Actually, with Trail Boss, you can. It's the only smokeless powder out there that if there isn't any published data for a given cartridge/bullet combo you can actually make up your own (within reason) as long as you don't compress the powder.

According to Hodgdon (distributor for IMR powders), the formula - it's published in their manuals and works for any handgun or rifle cartridge using bullets that are appropriate to that caliber/cartridge - fill the case with Trail Boss to the point that the base of a seated bullet would be and weigh that powder. Call that your MAX load (if you compress the load you may get erratic burning and inconsistent results).
Click to expand...

Yeah thanks, I have 6lbs of it right now and have been using it since it came out. I currently load .45 acp, .357 mag, .38 spl., .44 mag and .45 colt to target velocities. But I'm kind of silly and use published data to do it. Just like every other load I have used in 18 years of reloading.

I mentioned the published data since it's one of the rules of the forum.
 
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