Hard Cast Bullets

[jmortimer]

Every time I have mentioned Missouri Bullet Compny I have stated something to the effect that they make "a good bullet at a great price." This is a compliment and if I manufactured bullets I would have the same business model. Yet in spite of my compliment everyone who pimps for them gets their panties all twisted up. I was chided for mileading a "newbie" and for saying that MBC had a limited bullet line which is insane.
If you are a "newbie" you need to be told the truth. In fact the thread by the so called newbie was entitled "Lead Cast Bullets" - no one corrected the "green horn" - it is "hard cast bullet" a pet peeve for some - http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=54
For many/most hard cast bullet reloaders the meplat is the most important aspect of the bullet. The wide meplat is where the bullet does its work in hunting and self-defense applications. In this regard we all owe Veral Smith a debt of gratitude for inventing Lead Bullet Technology. Now the owner of MBC advises that MBC makes 53 different bullets but as far as I can tell not one is an LBT design or style with a wide meplat for hunting and self-defense. My favorite, Beartooth Bullets makes bullets for 35 different calibers let alone different bullets (I'm not taking the time to count them all) and every bullet has the widest meplat possible which is what I want. If you look at the cutting edge ammunition manufacturers, Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, Garrett Cartridge, Grizzly Cartridge Co. etc - They all load
LBT/LBT Style hard cast bullets.
I load .45 Colt and .38/.357 - Now MBC has 6 .45 Colt bullets ranging from 12 to 18 BHN compared to Beartooth Bullet's 17 bullets for
.45 Colt/.454 Casull all heat treated to 21 to 22 BHN which is more better as explained below if you hunt or use hard cast bullets for self-defense. MBC's biggest meplat in .45 Colt is an anemic 255 grain SWC. All of the Beartooth bullets have large/giant meplats.
Two other companies worth mentioning are Penn Bullets, Inc who make the fantastic Thunderhead 270 grain hard cast .45 Colt - Bob Palermo's well written article discusses all the above with some criticism of LBT which I disagree with but is an excellent article on this subject. http://www.pennbullets.com/thunderheads.html
I also like Oregon Trail Bullet, Co. which makes bullets hard cast at 20 BHN- "Laser Cast." I like wadcutters for self-defense and Penn Bullets makes a 225 grain .45 Colt DEWC - what a great bullet. Also, Oregon Trail Laser Cast 148 grain DEWC in .38/357 is fantastic and as discussed in the article below, that bullet at 657 fps from a 2" snubbie shot through 36" of ballistic gelatin. That full profile would destroy its target. Now MBC makes a 148 grain wadcutter but at a 10 BHN it will deform and perform poorly as a self-defense and hunting bullet as discussed in this article http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/HG_wickedwadcutters_200901/
So before you criticize me let's get our facts right - for hunting and self-defense the best choice is not MBC - That is why companies like Buffalo Bore, Double Tap etc load bullets with wide meplats. MBC should discover the meplat. Otherwise they make "a good bullet at a great price."

 

[ljnowell]

Every time I have mentioned Missouri Bullet Compny I have stated something to the effect that they make "a good bullet at a great price." This is a compliment and if I manufactured bullets I would have the same business model. Yet in spite of my compliment everyone who pimps for them gets their panties all twisted up. I was chided for mileading a "newbie" and for saying that MBC had a limited bullet line which is insane.
If you are a "newbie" you need to be told the truth. In fact the thread by the newbie was entitled "Lead Cast Bullets" - no one corrected the "green horn" - it is "hard cast bullet" a pet peeve for some - http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...duct_list&c=54
For many/most hard cast bullet reloaders the meplat is the most important aspect of the bullet. The wide meplat is where the bullet does its work in hunting and self-defense applications. In this regard we all owe Veral Smith a debt of gratitude for inventing Lead Bullet Technology. Now the owner of MBC advises that MBC makes 53 different bullets but as far as I can tell not one is an LBT design or style with a wide meplat for hunting and self-defense. My favorite Beartooth Bullets makes bullets for 35 different calibers let alone different bullets (I'm not taking the time to count them all) and every bullet has the widest meplat possible which is what I want. If you look at the cutting edge ammunition manufacturers, Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, Garrett Cartridge, Grizzly Cartridge Co. etc - They all load LBT hard cast bullets.
I load .45 Colt and .38/.357 - Now MBC has 6 .45 Colt bullets ranging from 12 to 18 BHN compared to Beartooth Bullet's 17 bullets for
.45 Colt/.454 Casull all heat treated to 21 to 22 BHN which is more better as explained below if you hunt or use hard cast bullets for self-defense. MBC's biggest meplat in .45 Colt is an anemic 255 grain SWC. All of the Beartooth bullets have large/giant meplats.
Two other companies worth mentioning are Penn Bullets, Inc who make the fantastic Thunderhead 270 grain hard cast .45 Colt - Bob Palermo's well written article discusses all the above with some criticism of LBT which I disagree with but is an excellent article on this subject. http://www.pennbullets.com/thunderheads.html
I also like Oregon Trail Bullet, Co. which makes bullets hard cast at 20 BHN- "Laser Cast." I like wadcutters for self-defense and Penn Bullets makes a 225 grain .45 Colt DEWC - what a great bullet. Also, Oregon Trail Laser Cast 148 grain DEWC in .38/357 is fantastic and as discussed in the article below, that bullet at 657 fps from a 2" snubbie shot through 36" of ballistic gelatin. That full profile would destroy its target. Now MBC makes a 148 grain wadcutter but at a 10 BHN it will deform and perform poorly as a self-defense and hunting bullet as discussed in this article http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunitio...utters_200901/
So before you criticize me let's get our facts right - for hunting and self-defense the best choice is not MBC - That is why companies like Buffalo Bore, Double Tap etc load bullets with wide meplats. MBC should discover the meplat. Otherwise they make "a good bullet at a great price."

I think you need to get a thicker skin, so you dont get insulted too easy.

That being said the fact that they make the bullets in a 21 instead of 18 is negligible. I doubt many people are planning on pushing the bullets past 14-1500 fps. If you are, then you need a different bullet plain and simple. However, the reason you posted this, I am sure is because I chided you for suggesting them. The OP of the thread in question was looking for a 45acp bullet. Of which beartooth offers 1 bullet. Missouri bullet offers seven. Big difference. Also, 21bhn is way too damned hard for anything shot from a .45 acp.

I really find your suggestion that the bullets are "anemic" because of meplat area comical. 99% of the people reloading here are hunting paper, not animals. The ones that are hunting animals are usually using a commercial hollow point round. If they arent, then great for them, Beartooth bullets may offer a better choice.

I'm sorry for crapping on your company, I didnt mean to do that. I just feel that when a person is asking for advice on a bullet for a .45 acp telling them that someone else has better bullets and selection, when they only have one bullet of that caliber and its in a hardness way to hard for the velocity, isnt doing them any service. When someone asks for a bullet for hunting and wants a large meplat at a hardness they can launch it from a TC, then by all means, suggest Beartooth.

I dont care what stories you cite, having a lead bullet that deforms upon impact and gets ugly out of shape is exactly what I want for self defense. For said reason I will continue to load my Missouri Bullets, at the proper hardness so they do not lead, for self defense purposes. I highly doubt that if I need them the object of my fire will stop to complain about the bullet meplat.

 

[jmortimer]

I see your point - but if the 18 versus 21 BHN is of no consequense then the issue is bullet design and if you are shooting paper MBC is a great choice but if you look at the Beartooth .45 ACP it is a nice bullet/design. It may or may not be better than MBC's seven different bullets. I don't have an interest in any particular company, just in meplats. As far as handgun hunters go, I think you underestimate how many are using LBT style bullets hence, once again, why companies like Buffalo Bore and Double Tap are doing so well. I just assumed that there were some/many reloaders who hunt or go out in the "woods" or use hard cast bullets for self-defense on this site. I must be wrong if MBC is clearly the #1 bullet by a wide margin - I would buy them if they discovered the meplat.

 

[Johnny Guest]

Irreconcilable differences.

I've seldom seen a difference of opinion so thoroughly hashed out in so few posts. You two guys seem to have a difference of opinion that simply CANNOT be worked out on this forum. Looks as if you'll simply have to agree to disagree.

My compliments to both, for keeping the disagreement on a courteous level.

That's okay, guys. Lots of honest, upright individuals have simple disagreements. Each can expound until their complexions turn purest azure without altering the other's point of view. Having expressed their own opinions, and, when they run out of talking points, they simply go their separate ways.

SO - - let's leave it at that, huh. No one wins, no one loses.

CLOSED

Best,
Johnny