Need to know Brinell Hardness rating of Laser Cast and other factory cast bullets.

[Crosshair]

Simple question, I am entertaining the thought of using factory cast lead bullets instead of the cheap surplus 30 carbine bullets that I am using now for my plinking .308 loads. My Lee reloading manual has great data for lead loads, but I have no idea what the brinell hardness rating is for different factory cast bullets. I use Laser Cast bullets for my .357, 45 Auto, and 45 Colt (Ruger Only loads) reloading and I like them. Does anyone know the hardness of factory lead bullets. Brands that I know of include: Laser Cast, Meister (I think this one is BN 14-16?), and Beartooth. How well do such bullets perform in rifle loads? Are they a good idea, or should I stock up on surplus bullets? Are there any other brands that make good 30 caliber bullets that I missed?

/Thanks.

 

[dfaugh]

What kind of velocities are you talking about? I ask because a friend and I tried to work up some 8mm Mauser loads using gas checked "hard cast" bullets. IIRC they were supposed to be around 15-16 brinell. We found some loading data for lead bullets that was supposed to push them to about 2000-2100 fps.

To say that the results were less-than-spectacular would be an understatment. We had difficulty hitting a 24" x 24" backer board---at 25 yards. (My shotgun patterns better than this). They were keyholing and going every which way. While we weren't sure we'd get real good accuracy, this was, of course, really bad. We could only assume that they were stripping the rifling, although, oddly there wasn't any real leading in the barrel(s).

 

[Jim Watson]

Commercial cast bullets are marginal for rifles.
If you want them to shoot well in a rifle, best keep them down to pistol velocity. I have done pretty well with the Laser Cast plainbase in a .30-06 with 12 grains of 700X, which was as close as I could get to Ed Harris' "The Load" of 13 grains of Red Dot without buying powder for the job.
Strangely, the Laser Cast bulk cast gas check bullet was less accurate with a gas check, and much less accurate without gas check. I don't know about their more expensive bullets that they put the gas checks on.
I shot some .30-30s with 14 grains of 4227 which is an old .32-40 load.

I did good shooting with gas check bullets from Larry Shappey (since deceased) and Fusilier (out of business) but don't know anything about current makers. My .308 and .30-06 get Sierras and I cast my own for .38-55.

2000 fps calls for hard alloy or heat treatment, exact sizing, and good lube.

 

[Crosshair]

Would coating the bullets with Alox lube help with the leading problem? Sure I would still need to keep the velocity down, but would this be worthwhile?

 

[Grump]

My home-cast Lyman whatevers (120 grains lubed and gas-checked) with the pointy nose do just fine, with no noticeable leading, at 1800 or so FPS out of two different USGI Carbines with not very outstanding but decent bores.

They also shoot 2 MOA quite reliably.

They are "only" BHN 12-13, as measured with the SAECO gizmo that yeilds funky numbers you have to translate on a chart.

The Laser-Casts and Rim Rocks I buy in other calibers have never tested below BHN 20, IIRC. Some lead slightly in some guns, some almost don't at all.

I believe that your lube is far more important than hardness. The first "hard" cast bullets I bought left drag marks like cheese in .38s and .357s, no matter how lightly loaded.

 

[rbernie]

I've been using the Beartooth 180gr .358 SWC-GC pistol bullet in my 35 Remington Marlin 336 for a while now. I put it over a starting load for RE-10x (say, 32g) and have at it. Accuracy has been decent (2.5" @ 100 yards) and with no leading in the MicroGroove barrel.

The biggest issie I have with this load is finding a consistant mechanism to bell the case mouth. For some reason, my 35 Rem die set didn't come with that.

 

[Crosshair]

Thanks Grump, that is EXACTLY hat I needed to know about the Laser Cast bullets. Mabee all I need to do is add on a gas-check and put some Alox on them if I find leading to be a problem. I can always experiment with it, knowing the BH of them helps me alot. I knew they had to be hard because LC bullets don't lead any of my guns a significant amount, even my .357 magnum. So as long as I am carefull, I should be able to use them for pinking loads in a rifle.

 

[BluesBear]

I believe that your lube is far more important than hardness.

I agree with that 100%.
Junk lube is actually worse than no lube at all.