Hard to stay jazzed up about the 6.8mm in an AR platform

[Float Pilot]

I have been playing around with my Stag 6.8mm Ar platform for over a year now. Originally it was an interesting cartridge to load up. And I have been getting half inch groups with some handloads at 100 yards....

...But I am rapidly loosing interest not so much due to the cartridge but because I really do like care for the AR platform in any caliber.

I was thinking about selling the darn thing but I have a bunch of money sunk into it.

I went to the A2 stock, replaced the factory recoil spring with a Tubbs flat wire spring, and modified the feed ramps to an M-4 style.
I am using a 6 power Leupold. It still has a stock Stag trigger. Although a military type pull, it is OK. Some handloads are fairly good from this rifle. After buying dies and 1,000 rounds of SSA brass, my idea of going to a longer barrel ran out of steam.

I find that I prefer shooting accurate bolt actions much more than auto loaders.
Maybe it was the 30 years of shooting ARs on a regular basis that burned me out...

I think a super light little bolt action rifle with a long chamber throat and a 20 inch barrel would be the way to go.

I am pushing 90 grain bullets to 2,900 fps, 110 grain bullets to 2,550 and 130 grain bullets to 2,350 with the 16 inch barrel (1 in 10 twist) on my Stag.
The AR-15 action and magazine length restrict what you can do.

A 20 inch barrel should give at least 100 fps more for each load.

I have loaded some 150 grain bullets to 1,950 fps in the short barrels AR.
From a 20-22in bolt gun you might be able to get 2,200.

I think this 6.8mm AR, dies and all the brass/bullets, will probably end up on the for-sale section as soon as I see something else that trips my trigger. Still can't decide if I will keep the scope for another rifle or not...

 

[peyton]

I think the gun market missed the boat in not chambering this caliber in a small lightweight rifle. I am thinking something like a remington model 7 or a cz527.

 

[Sam1911]

I think the gun market missed the boat in not chambering this caliber in a small lightweight rifle.

Initially, I had the same thought. But on reflection, there are SO many different kinds of great bolt action rifles chambered in SO many good cartridges already. And the only thing the 6.8 really has going for it (it's raison d'etre) is that it fits in our common M16/M4/AR15 rifles. A bolt gun in this caliber would be pretty swell if this ammo was/had been adopted for use by the military and became common and/or inexpensive. (Or at least the brass and bullets were, for us reloaders.)

Kind of like all the .223 bolt rifles out there. There's plenty of varmint calibers that do stuff better than the .223, but it's such a common round due to the military use of 5.56mm that folks buy other rifles in that chambering simply on the popularity of the round. This can't possibly apply to the 6.8. At least not yet, and it isn't looking all that good for the future, either.

There have to be some very beneficial reasons to choose a caliber like this (in a bolt-action rifle that doesn't have the mag-size constraints of an AR-15) over other cartridges of very similar bore size that offer better performance. And right now I don't see any.

But, for those of you who do really want one or already shoot one, what is it about the 6.8 that trips your trigger?

-Sam

 

[vanfunk]

I agree, the 6.8 is kinda like that friendly, decent looking high school girlfriend you had for a few months. She was OK, but you just weren't that into her...

The 6.8 is fine, but about as exciting as a cup of lukewarm, reedy clam chowder.

Just my 2/100ths of a dollar.

vanfunk

 

[ArmedBear]

I believe the Model 7 was briefly cataloged with the 6.8. Whether or not any were shipped, I don't know.

That said, why would you want the 6.8 in a Model 7?

.260 and 7mm-08 are superior rounds that fit in the same action.

The whole, perhaps the only, point of the 6.8SPC is that it fits in an AR.

There's really no other reason to be interested in it, unless, perhaps, you can get it in a Mini-Mauser like the CZ527, which AFAIK is available in .223 and 7.62x39, but not 6.8. Even then, it would be a novelty.

 

[kanook]

But, for those of you who do really want one or already shoot one, what is it about the 6.8 that trips your trigger?

due to the fact my shoulder needs to be replaced, my 308 now takes a day to recover from. I bought the 6.8 in the ar platform and like it alot due to low recoil and still have some decent stopping power. This year Ruger offer the 6.8 in the compact rifle line. I haven't seen one yet in 6.8 but when I do IT'S MINE. when I orderd the ammo, a mistake was made and I ended up with 1,000 rds for about $400 to the door, so I am set for awhile.

 

[BUGUDY]

I just finished building a 6.8 AR upper, and shot it yesterday to zero. I originally bought the parts to build the upper and sell it. Now I will have to decide between selling my 24" 5.56 bull or this 6.8 18" upper. If it shoots with the same accuracy, I think I will keep the 6.8 a little more versatillity. I will rteload for either one that I keep.

 

[ThomasT]

Wayne Van Zwoll did a reveiw of the model 7 in 6.8. I don't remember the velocities being all that great.

I think i'll just keep my two model 7s in 7-08 and be happy with that.

 

[mp5a3]

Ammo availability is a HUGE consideration for me when buying a firearm. That's why I have 9mm, .223/5.56, and 7.62x39.

 

[rbernie]

I really like the 6.8SPC. I have a lot of experience hunting with intermediate rounds, and have found the 7.62x39 (handloaded) to be all I need for game. For years, I hunted using a 7.62x39 AR15 that I built - I wanted to hunt and fight with the same weapon (AR platform) and 7.62x39 did the job for hunting while an identical AR in 223 did the job for training/HD use.

But I eventually wanted the ability to have something other than 223/5.56 for self defense use, and at the time the 7.62x39 AR was too limited in its magazine capacity for my taste. For this reason, I bought into the 6.8SPC with the premise that it would give me the power of the 7.62x39 with a reliable 25rd mag capacity.

I have not regretted that decision. It does everything that I need.

Recently, C-Products finally got their AR15 7.62x39 30rd magazines sorted out. So, I guess that I could move back to the 7.62x39 chambering if I really wanted. But 6.8SPC does what I need it to do, and does it reliably.

I really like the fact that I can share several bullets between my 6.8SPC and 270 loads (just like I did years ago with 303R and 7.62x39). I have several thousand cases, and I bought several thousand 115gr Hornady bullets when Midway was blowing them out as blems. I'm probably set for life on ammo components, assuming that I continue to use 223 for plinking..

I have a Ruger 7.62x39 bolt gun, and think highly of it. I sometimes think that the same rifle in 6.8SPC would be neat. But when the bolt gun is no lighter than my AR, I kinda start to wonder what the draw would be...

If I could only have one rifle in all the world - it would probably be one of my 6.8SPC AR15 carbines, simply because it seems to be the best 'generalist' in the safe.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I find that I prefer shooting accurate bolt actions much more than auto loaders.

Well, now I think a lot of us are with you on that. If you're just benchrest shooting, a turnbolt can NOT be beat! Easier to put on sandbags, load without taking on/off the bags, etc. And typically very accurate. Every year that goes by, the rifle collection gets a higher and higher percentage of turnbolts, relative to other types, as things are bought & sold.

I used to be really keen on a 6.8 or 6.5G in an AR type, until I figured out that my DPMS LR-260L at only 8.0 lbs unloaded, can do everything the 6.5G can do, and more, in a shorter barrel, than the 6.5 G from a longer barrel. It can be downloaded to 6.5 G levels, if you like, or full-powered .260 Rem. It IS a bit heavier than an AR15, and that's a slight drawback, but if you keep it KISS, then it's about the same or a little lighter than a bogged-down AR15.

 

[everallm]

If you want to stay with the 6.8, have been turned off the AR platform but don't want to lose your investment in after market stuff have you thought about the Robinson Arms XCR rifle?

Use almost all of your bits including stock, magazines, ammo, sights etc, semi but without the AR DI system.

Just a thought.....

 

[Reid73]

there are SO many different kinds of great bolt action rifles chambered in SO many good cartridges already. And the only thing the 6.8 really has going for it (it's raison d'etre) is that it fits in common M16/M4/AR15 rifles.

Absolutely.

 

[rbernie]

used to be really keen on a 6.8 or 6.5G in an AR type, until I figured out that my DPMS LR-260L at only 8.0 lbs unloaded, can do everything the 6.5G can do, and more, in a shorter barrel, than the 6.5 G from a longer barrel.

Agreed, and I have built three AR10s trying to prove this point. But what they can't be is seven pounds with optic and ammo. For field hunting, that makes a real difference. So long as I get exit wounds on the stuff that I shoot, I can see no value in carryin' extra weight.

 

[ArmedBear]

For field hunting, one can have a 24" barrel .25-06, .270 or .30-06 that's 7 lbs. with optic and ammo. Nice gun, no more expensive than a AR-10.

http://www.weatherby.com/product/rifles/markv/ultralight

It's just not an EBR.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

For field hunting, that makes a real difference. So long as I get exit wounds on the stuff that I shoot, I can see no value in carryin' extra weight

For field hunting, one can have a 24" barrel .25-06, .270 or .30-06 that's 7 lbs. with optic and ammo. Nice gun, no more expensive than a AR-10.

http://www.weatherby.com/product/rif...rkv/ultralight

It's just not an EBR.

Both good points. My deal is that I'm trying to simplify and get really really good with one rifle - by using it for hunting and target shooting, I should be pretty handy with it if the S ever hits the F. That's why I ran with this DPMS in .260 - it's sort of the one-rifle do it all thing. Sort of a lightweight EBR (but not really). Sort of a full-powered EBR (really). And a decent hunting rifle in states that allow semi-autos. Not super light, but light enough if you're not hiking in too terribly far.

 

[jerkface11]

They picked the wrong bullet diameter for that cartridge. There just isn't a good enough selection. .257 would have made more sense. Of course with the Olympic WSSM uppers what's the point?

 

[gvnwst]

They picked the wrong bullet diameter for that cartridge. There just isn't a good enough selection. .257 would have made more sense. Of course with the Olympic WSSM uppers what's the point?

Well, at least, they needed a slightly shorter case. You can't seat the more commen bullets, as they are too long... As to the Oly WSSM uppers, I have heard some very bad things about them, not sure if they are true though.

 

[rbernie]

For field hunting, one can have a 24" barrel .25-06, .270 or .30-06 that's 7 lbs. with optic and ammo. Nice gun, no more expensive than a AR-10.

Concur - I have a Browning ABolt Medallion in 270 that is sub seven pounds. But if you're interested in one rifle manual-of-arms such that you train with what you hunt with what you use for SD, then the AR platform is a easy choice.

 

[Jaws]

I think the biggest mistake, from the civilians point of view, about the 6.8x43, is that they didn't base the case on the 7.62x39mm or 7.62x45mm rounds. I understand that for the millitary they were concerned with the strenght of the Stoner type bolt for the russian round.
But I think that If they would have used the AK round as parent case, all the companies from the Eastern Europe and former Soviet Union would have been able to quickly produce brass and ammo in mass and at good prices.
This would have made the 6.8 a very atractive round for a lot of people.

 

[R.W.Dale]

The problem with these Super assault rifle rounds is the folks designing them thinks EVERY ar round has to have 30round mag capability. The 6.8 is basically a cartridge that sold its soul to the velocity & highcap devil at the price of poor bullet BC and weight selection.

Yes it was actually designed as such, but after the military's 15minutes of interest waned this cartridge was touted as ar15's answer to the 30-06.....which of course it isn't.

Myself I'm eagerly awaiting more developments along the RAR, WSSM or 300 OSM lines. These cartridges actually do elevate the AR15 platform out of the assault rifle cartridge realm into true high powered rifle performance. So what if mag capacity is only 5 rds! I have a .223 and a 7.62x39 for high cap work, bambi only needs a couple shots at most

 

[rbernie]

Yes it was actually designed as such, but after the military's 15minutes of interest waned this cartridge was touted as ar15's answer to the 30-06.....which of course it isn't.

Of course it is not, but I never heard such a comparison made. It would be ludicrous for anyone to expect to get equivalent performance from a chambering with little more than half the case capacity.

In fact, if you go back and look at all of the literature about the 6.8SPC, it was intended specifically to compete with other intermediate chamberings such as 7.62x39 but in a form (less body taper) more suited to the AR magwell shape. In that role, I think that it works quite well.

Myself I'm eagerly awaiting more developments along the RAR, WSSM or 300 OSM lines.

The issue is reputed to be getting reliable feeding from these chamberings due to their steep shoulders.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Of course it is not, but I never heard such a comparison made. It would be ludicrous for anyone to expect to get equivalent performance from a chambering with little more than half the case capacity.

Ludicrous or not folks do it all the time, you just need to get around to the right forums. I see folks posting thermonuclear load data that they CLAIM gets them within 200fps o0f 270 winchester with the same bullet from a 16" bbl, with the magic twist rate of course

Then there's the other crowd who say things like great for deer and elk out to 500yds.

If I had a dollar for every time I've chastised both these groups I could buy a new stainless ruger mkII..

The issue is reputed to be getting reliable feeding from these chamberings due to their steep shoulders.

My understanding is they feed from the AR 15 slicker than snot as unlike in boltactions they're fed straight up the center single stack style much like a 45acp 1911

 

[wally]

Recently, C-Products finally got their AR15 7.62x39 30rd magazines sorted out

Not really, I've got half a dozen of these past couple of months, from Midway, straight from C-Products and none worked.

I put in the springs from a Bulgarian AK mag and haven't had a failure since. There are three spring variarions in the mags I have, I don't think C-Products has figured it out let. I've told them that a real AK spring is the solution.

--wally.

 

[rbernie]

My understanding is they feed from the AR 15 slicker than snot as unlike in boltactions they're fed straight up the center single stack style much like a 45acp 1911

I had an acquaintance with an Oly Arms WSSM, and it was NOT a reliable feeding thing. More often than not, the bullet would try to go thru one of the bullet guides in the barrel extension and the shoulder would jam up hard on the barrel extension with the case now cocked sideways. The only way that I've seen single-stack mags work in the AR was when the bullet was too large to go thru the bullet guides and simply skidded up the center into the chamber (a la the 458 SOCOM and the Beowolf).

Not really, I've got half a dozen of these past couple of months, from Midway, straight from C-Products and none worked.

Good to know. I have a handful of these, and so far they've been good. I got mine out of the first batch they made of the curved body.