Harris County, Tx - District Attorney Will Not Answer Question Regarding Dogs ?

[gamboolman]

I need help in getting a question answered and would appreciate any advice from members who live in the Houston, Texas area.

We live in Harris County and I have emailed the District Attorney's office and asked them to answer the following questions?


This is the response I got from the District Attorney:
--- DA <[email protected]> wrote:

> I suggest that you contact the Sheriffs Department and carry a can of
> pepper spray. I do not give legal opinions on the law except for specific, narrowly drawn, opinions on questions posed by police agencies.
I am the Harris County District Attorney.

Here is my original questions:

>My question is about dogs that attack or threaten to attack when my
> and wife I are out walking or jogging on public streets.

> I am a licensed CHL in Texas.
>
> Can I/we kill the dog if it is unleashed and runs at us and gets out
> of the yard/property of it's owner?
>
> Can I/we press charges on the dogs owner if we have to kill it
because it was attacking or acting threatening as I have described above?
>
> If I do kill a dog as described above what about the owners suing me?
> Am I protected from this if their dog was out of their yard and off
> their property and on on a public street?
>
> I am tired of large aggressive dogs attacking and threatening me.
>
> I want to know what the law is, not what peoples emotional opinions
> are?
>
> I will look forward to hearing from you.
>
> Thanks, Mal....

 

[Geronimo45]

If the dog is actively threatening your health and wellbeing, it's probably safe to shoot. A dog that wantonly attacks people not on the land of the dog's owner is normally rubbed out by the proper authorities afterwards, and I'm pretty sure you can charge the owner with negligence/possession of a vicious critter/something of the kind.

Pepper spray is probably a good thing to carry.

"I do not give legal opinions on the law except for specific, narrowly drawn, opinions on questions posed by police agencies." - not exactly going above and beyond the call of duty, is he?

 

[RCouch]

Your fortunate he didn't try to find you and have you arrested for having a CHL license. The Harris County DA is a anti-gun for anyone in spite of the fact that the HPD and Harris County Sheriffs dept. do not have the manpower and funds to adequately police the county.
I will actively campaign against him the next time he runs for office.

 

[The Shootist]

gamboolman

Hello! Everyone I'm new here and thought I'd drop in and say Howdy with a reply!
I live just north of Houston in Cut N Shoot & have lived in and around Harris County all my life!

I wouldn't shoot them doggie's on the street cause they'll bust you for discharging a firearm in Public.Instead get a 36"baseball bat and swing away but if you live in the Country as I do (on 10acres) the Sheriff's Dept. told me if I had any dogs running loose on my property(wild one's or not) if they ain't on a leash then I could drop them where they stand & I have.
I've got 2 little girls and have had packs of dogs(6-10) run thru my 10 acres atleast once or twice a week for 3-4yrs. and it terrifies my girls. Pop Um!

 

[gezzer]

Send a letter to your governor, state reps, state senators The DA works for the public NOT just for police agency’s.

Then send the same letter to all the media in your area.

Then find out who will be running against him in the next election this should help in the new DA"S election.

 

[MechAg94]

As a kid growing up in a rural area, my dog(s) would go running around almost every night sometimes miles down the road. I didn't then realize what all they were doing. I know better now. In a city, you have to be careful since all of those dogs are someone's little angel that wouldn't hurt a fly and sleeps with their baby girl.

 

[LAK]

What gezzer said.

That parasite needs a replacement.

------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[frostbiker]

That of a DA is the bane of all gun owners in Texas. He'd charge his own mom with a gun crime if he could get away with it.

I don't have the book in front of me, but you should go back and read the rules and regs regarding defense of self and third person in your CHL handbook. The DA is right, for once, that you should contact the SO or HPD, or whoever patrols your neighborhood and get their take on it. I would personally go into the closest police substation or sheriff's office to talk with a LEO about this.

While you are at it, if you do have an active dog problem in your neighborhood, call the Houston SPCA and get reports started on dogs that are causing problems or acting aggressively. They have the ability to remove dangerous animals without a court order if there is reason to believe the animal is aggressive and threatening to humans. Contacting the SPCA or Animal Control will establish a record of problems with aggressive animals and further strengthen your case if the time comes you have to shoot a mean dog.

 

[mbt2001]

I don't have the book in front of me, but you should go back and read the rules and regs regarding defense of self and third person in your CHL handbook. The DA is right, for once, that you should contact the SO or HPD, or whoever patrols your neighborhood and get their take on it. I would personally go into the closest police substation or sheriff's office to talk with a LEO about this.

Carry pepper Spray. If he tries to bite you, shoot him with pepper spray. Pepper spray works better than bullets in most cases. There is a special formulation for dogs, you can pick it up at Gander Mountain, Academy, or some other sporting good store.

I don't know what your problems with Dogs is, but it sounds like to me you are looking for a reason to shoot the dog. Maybe you should examine that a little.

 

[auschip]

Pepper spray works better than bullets in most cases.

Respectfully I would disagree. A dead dog will never bite again, but you can't say the same thing for a sprayed dog.

 

[Spreadfire Arms]

well, after reading your email to the Harris County District Attorney, there is only one issue he really can address:

Can I/we kill the dog if it is unleashed and runs at us and gets out of the yard/property of it's owner?

there is nothing mentioned there about the dog being aggressive or attacking? it is a poorly worded question. a dog running at you happily, wagging its tail, and looking for attention, is not a threat and thus you cannot use force.

Can I/we press charges on the dogs owner if we have to kill it
because it was attacking or acting threatening as I have described above?

probably more of a civil issue. D/A does not handle civil issues. i am unaware of a law in Texas that holds the dog owner criminally liable at this time, although there is a bill being tossed around.

> If I do kill a dog as described above what about the owners suing me? Am I protected from this if their dog was out of their yard and off their property and on on a public street?

again another civil issue. D/A cannot comment on this. but i think that you are not protected from any such civil liability.

I want to know what the law is, not what peoples emotional opinions are?

that is really the only question the D/A can answer.

as far as pepper spray, yes it works. i have sprayed many dogs and it works very well. not to say it is the best tool in all cases, but generally, if you spray a dog right in the nose they will run away, but they may return in a few minutes.

 

[LubeckTech]

There are several problems with shooting the dog(s) first you are responsible for the bullets which leave your gun and depending on the surroundings the collateral damage could be anything from a hole in the yard , car, house or person so pepper srpay first then if you have to shoot it would be easier to justify it. If you shoot a dog I'm sure the PETA people and your local humane society would try to cause you as many problems as possible. I live in WV and work with the law enforcement comunity here (communications) a WV DNR officer was in our shop one day and was telling us how unfortunate it was that from a legal stand point in this state you are better off to shoot a human than any animal wild or domaetic. You have the right to walk the streets of your community without being accousted by man or beast and if there is an on going problem there is a solution that does not involve killing the dog(s) although I am not opposed to kiling the dog(s). You can sue the owners in small claims court. Even you have not been injured in most states you could sue for and collect damages against dog owners whose animals nusance you. Video tape the situation and before taking any legal action send the owner a copy and demand the situation be corrected or it will get expensive - that will get their attention. Another soultion is get some deer urine or other really BAD smelling but nontoxic stuff and squirt the dog - get as much as you can on Fido - if doggie comes home smelling to high heaven they will have incentive to take corrective action and you will have violated no laws in the process.

 

[ball3006]

The Tx CHL laws....

don't restrict the threat of great bodily harm to just two legged threats.........chris3

 

[Mot45acp]

A lil info on Mot

I live in Hardin county. In Dec of 2000, I shot a dog with a BB gun that was chewing my phone lines on my property. At the time, I had replaced phone lines twice. My luck, my wally world $40 bb gun, under 4 pumps of pressure causes the end of said dogs life. Next thing I know, I am wearing braclets in the back of a sqaud car. I am taken to jail. $500 bail. Cruelty to animals charge. Name in paper. $1500 lawyer fee. $500 restitution for destroying animal without permission.
note: The people the dog belonged to I have seen smoking out of thier glass pipe with a toddler in there lap. The odor was not marijuana but something that smelled like burnt hair. Crack or Meth.
The reason for restitution was this dog all of a sudden became thier show dog and sole source of income.
Cute girl in the DA office felt bad enough to give me a lot of personal info on "victims". As to "make things right". I never followed through.

 

[Elza]

I wouldn’t suggest it for two reasons. The same scenario as stated by Mot45acp happened to a friend of mine. The dog was on his property and chasing his daughter and he still got popped! It ended up costing him a bunch of money as well.

There was a dog wandering around our neighborhood a couple of years back. It was frothing at the mouth something fierce. (There are a number of things that can cause this besides rabies but I was disinclined to take a chance.) It was on the weekend (no animal control on the weekend) so I called the cops. By the time he got there the dog was long gone. I asked the officer what would happen if I dispatched the mutt. He said to make sure it was A) on my property and B) shoot it directly head-on then swear to God that it was advancing and growling. Anything else and I would end up with my butt in a sling.

 

[Prince Yamato]

Something to likewise consider... in Texas, someone's dog is property and you can shoot to kill to defend property in Texas...

 

[Deavis]

in Texas, someone's dog is property and you can shoot to kill to defend property in Texas...[/uqote]

A little misleading, don't you think? I believe this is what you are trying to get at:

§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Are you sure that a dog is tangible moveable property and that when it is attacking another person it falls under these exceptions? I think the dog, when attacking, falls under this a little better...

§ 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person
is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.31;
(2) if a reasonable person in the actor's situation
would not have retreated; and
(3) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect himself against the other's use or
attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual
assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
(b) The requirement imposed by Subsection (a)(2) does not
apply to an actor who uses force against a person who is at the time
of the use of force committing an offense of unlawful entry in the
habitation of the actor.

 

[Spreadfire Arms]

there's a difference here. in mot's example, the dog was killed for chewing phone lines (not an imminent threat to anyone's life). yamato is talking about shooting an aggressive dog that is attacking your dog.

TX law doesn't allow you to shoot a dog who is doing something like chewing phone lines. there is no criminal offense here. the dog isn't threatening anyone.

if the dog is attacking you or a 3rd person, or even your dog, then that's different.

im not sure as i am not a lawyer, but i'd say a dog is tangible ("'tangible property' refers to things that can be touched, seen and smelled.") and moveable (land is generally not considered moveable).

 

[deanf]

The district attorney or prosecuting attorney or whatever he's called in your jurisdiction can't dispense legal advice to individual citizens for various reasons, and it is unreasonable to expect him to.

First, you are not directly paying him to: you haven't hired him as your lawyer. Would you write him for any legal question you might have? How could you justify that?

Second, he represents the "state", not individual citizens. If he dispenses legal advice to individual citizens he has created a conflict of interest vis-a-vis the fact that he may have to proceed against said citizen in his own jurisdiction.

I'm sure any lawyers could go on about this . . .

 

[gamboolman]

Thanks for all the responses.

I had no idea that a District Attorney could not answer a question(s) like this. I really thought that these were reasonable questions.

Does this mean that a citizen has to pay a private attorney to ask what I thought was some simple questions?

Let me say this, I hope I never have to hurt/kill a dog. But I have been attacked, bit (not bad but drew blood), and threatened by big dogs quite a few times. I reckon I will get me some pepper spray and try to squirt the dog 1st and wait till it's chewing on me before I draw and shoot.

I guess I will have to contact my attorney and pay several hundred dollars to get a answer to my questions. That seems absurd to me, but if that is what it is, then that is what it is.

Again, thanks for all of the replies.

gamboolman....