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Harvard statistics textbook proves you gun owners are all "Flat Earthers"

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by wacki, Aug 31, 2008.

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  1. wacki

    wacki Member

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    Here is the data from page 1 of the textbook:
    [​IMG]

    Here is the conclusion on page 2:
    [​IMG]

    Notice the last three words!

    Here is a link to the book on Amazon:
    Principles of Biostatistics
    http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Biostatistics-CD-ROM-Marcello-Pagano/dp/0534229026

    The reviews of the book seem pretty positive! Almost 4 stars!

    Oh and here is some guy shopping for groceries in Switzerland. It's safe because of strict anti-gun legislation!

    [​IMG]


    Like my textbook says, you are all flat earthers!!!!!

    :neener::scrutiny::banghead:



    And one last fun fact for the day:

    http://www.swissrifles.com/shooting/

    If you would like I can e-mail you full page scans but that's everything gun related on pages 1 & 2 of the textbook.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 31, 2008
  2. Marcus84

    Marcus84 Member

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    I didn't know Brady and the VPC were making textbooks now.
     
  3. wacki

    wacki Member

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    *deleted*
     
  4. denfoote

    denfoote Member

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    That means all we have to do is herd all the anti's to the edge, at gunpoint, and shove them off!!
    Problem solved!!
     
  5. kentucky bucky

    kentucky bucky Member

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    I would rather be a "flat Earther" than a "coolaid drinker" like thae author of that textbook!
     
  6. wacki

    wacki Member

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    By the way both of the people that wrote this book are professors at Harvard. Just edited title of thread to reflect that. This book is widely used at other Universities as well.

    A google search of this:
    "Principles of Biostatistics" Pagano site:*.edu

    Gives you a pretty decent idea of how many universities teach out of this text.
     
  7. Ohen Cepel

    Ohen Cepel Member

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    It's good to see that their bias didn't leak into what they were actually trying to teach:fire:

    I went through a lot of this a few years back in grad school. The stats are really messed up to say the least.

    A big one that I fought against is that there is a line the read something like "legal intervention" in the US stats. The professor could not/would no answer what that was for a week or more. Finally he took the time to look into it.

    That is police shootings! Now, we, the gun owners are getting blamed for it when some scumbag that needs shot gets shot by the police.

    To say the least these "professors" are using a stats class (and we all know that the numbers will say anything you want them to) to preach their liberal dribble.

    Anyway, what else would one expect these days? Real impartial education based on facts?!!? Couldn't have that.
     
  8. jakemccoy

    jakemccoy Member

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    Was the woman packing something? What's that around her neck? Anyway, that's an awesome pic.
     
  9. TAB

    TAB Member

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    talk about losing your creditablity...
     
  10. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    Here's what I've learned as am nearing the end of my PhD.

    1) Not everyone with "Dr." before their name is an expert

    2) Usually, to get "Dr." before you name you have to publish a thesis (which often ends up as the basis of a book which you will write).

    3) Textbooks written by non-experts usually contain "non-expert" data.

    4) Not everyone who comes out of Harvard, Yale, or Julliard with a PhD is an expert, but they sure think they are.
     
  11. rainbowbob

    rainbowbob Member

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    Ironic that the authors unwittingly use statistics to prove that statistics can be distorted to "prove" just about anything.
     
  12. goon

    goon Member

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    Once upon a time...
    A statistics professor made it very clear to me that correlation does not equal causation.

    You'd think someone writing a textbook would be smart enough to know that.
     
  13. Zedo

    Zedo member

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    "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."
    -- Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens)
     
  14. SCKimberFan

    SCKimberFan Member

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    This is from Harvard? So is Obama. Interesting correlation isn't it?
     
  15. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Seems our social betters have spoken.
     
  16. Blackbeard

    Blackbeard Member

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    God, there are so many holes in this argument -- I can't believe it comes from Harvard. Wait, yes I can. Egads, is this our highest institution of learning in this country? Let me put it in simple terms for you Harvard numbskulls:

    CORRELATION DOES NOT IMPLY CAUSALITY.

    Statistics only indicate a difference between populations, not the cause of the difference. Yes, more Americans get killed than Japanese. We have a higher percentage of handguns here, but we also have a higher percentage of Americans. Which is the cause of the difference?

    If you had a statistic that showed that people who drink are more likely to be unemployed -- did the drinking cause the unemployment, or did the unemployment cause the drinking? Statistics don't show causes -- only differences.

    Only a Harvard grad (or your average Rosie O'Donnell fan) would draw a conclusion from a single statistic.

    Well it certainly seems to have convinced them.
     
  17. JCMAG

    JCMAG Member

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    General rule of thumb: anytime a "scholar" is attempting to make an argument for gun ownership equaling gun violence by use of statistics from Switzerland, they are debunking their own claim.
     
  18. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    Their example statistics are also skewed because the different countries have different definitions of "killed by handgun."
     
  19. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Furthermore, citing these numbers as a refutation of "guns don't kill people, people do" is an example of the gross misuse of statistics. I believe it rises to a logical fallacy as well.

    They did not cite the numbers of people murdered in each country, so it is impossible to determine whether the tools used influence the number of people killed significantly.

    They did not specify whether a handgun was used in defense by a policeman, an innocent homeowner, or offensively by a criminal.

    WRT correlation, one could look at the list of countries and, if one didn't worry about proving causation, make a rather simple observation: ethnic diversity kills. The United States is far and away the most ethnically diverse in the list.
     
  20. unspellable

    unspellable Member

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    Flat Earth

    I'm no Flat Earther. The Earth is an oblate spheroid. The reason for the oblateness is obvious if you look at a globe. It's due to the pressure from the wing nuts at the poles.
     
  21. Drgong

    Drgong Member

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    There are lies, dammed lies, and statistics.
     
  22. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Gun owners not called Flat Earthers!

    I think you completely misread something here and failed to understand what statistics mean. Last point first. Statistics don't 'prove' anything. They are just probabilities.

    You claim in the title that the book proves gun owners are flat earthers. No, that isn't what is being said at all.

    "...after all, there are still members of the Flat Earth Society."

    It does not say that they are all members, but that the society still exists with members. The author is suggesting that it is just as silly to believe in the notion of the Flat Earth as it is that guns don't kill people. The author is NOT saying gun owners are members of the Flat Earth Society.

    The book has an obvious bias, but the humor you have tried to find and the fun you are poking is just as wrong as the implications of the textbook.
     
  23. LKB3rd

    LKB3rd Member

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    They are the "kool-aid mixers," not the drinkers, appealing to the common "we are smarter than everyone else" attitude of many of the students by comparing people who refuse to give over all power to the government to "flat-earthers."
     
  24. sprithitler

    sprithitler Member

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    As far as i can see Gunrelated murders i n USA in 1979 was roughly half of the total murders in USA that year

    http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

    If half of Swedish murders in 1979 had been by firearm that number for sweden would have been roughly 55.
    The difference between roughly 110 murders one fifth of which are by firearms (and today the number of deaths by firearms in sweden has increased, despite stricter firearms laws) and 21 460 murders, roughly half of which is perpetrated using firearms can not be explained by either the difference in population size (roughly 1 to 20, which would give sweden roughly 1060 murders in 1979), nor by the amount of firearms in USA, remove all firearms related murders above one forth of the total perpetrated without firearms you still get 13000 murders, that would still be 650 murders compared to the roughly 110 actual murders in sweden.
    The explanation to the higher amounts of murders in USA can not be found in firearms, so where do you find it? whichever way you look at it the firearms are merely a tool, and though they make more attempted murders successful, they dont explain the high discrepancy in murders even when firearms deaths are lifted out.
     
  25. Hands of blue

    Hands of blue Member

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    “There are three kinds of lies — lies, damned lies and statistics.”-Mark Twain
     
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