Has anyone seen or tried one of these presses?

[spooky_t]

I'm, currently, reading through, The ABCs of Reloading and I noticed that in the section about presses, it mentions the H frame reloading press. Specifically the CH/4D model No.444 "H" frame press.
Has anyone every seen or owned one of these or any other H frame press?
I've found the company site and it looks promising, but I'd like opinions and/or experiences please.
Look here: http://www.ch4d.com/
Thanks in advance for any help.

__________________________________________________________________
Answer from Moderator
I was the C-H distributor in the 1970's and Modified the three position H press to be able to also hold a 4th taper crimp die for my Bullseye competition customers. The press is as solid as a rock without any flex and is the best press for the price that will last lifetimes without wear. When you pick up a cartridge with in seconds you will have a completely loaded round and it was a major advance over the 'C' and 'O' presses that created a single stage of reloading. It will take any standard die set you possess and I sold many hundreds of them and still use mine for rifle calibers and pistol calibers not loaded on my Stars and Auto Champ. CH4D is the current company after my C-H owner friend retired as I did also.
CH4D reloading dies and tools are like pick up trucks compared to RCBS as pretty cars. C_H has the strongest decapping shafts ever. I still have pistol and carbine caliber conversions for this press by C-H and primer feeding parts and for the Auto/Champ too and a hundred C-H standard heavy duty reloading dies in all calibers for lifetimes of usage.

Ask me or Search for the CH4D web site to learn all about this press that will well serve your family for generations with out wear. I wrote the reloading advice booklet "How To Live With And Love Your Progressive Reloader" included with all Autochamps after I wrote it for all progressive reloaders and you can see it sold on ebay as star0reloader0mentors. I recommend this press as the first press to own and use before a QUALITY progessive loader is needed by serious competitors.

Paul Jones Moderator

 

[Wil Terry]

YEP !!!
This is one of the unheralded superstars of the reloading press genre'.

 

[Walkalong]

C&H makes some pretty good stuff.

 

[snuffy]

This one? So does reloading with it involve moving a case through 4 stations to complete one round? That's a lot of fiddling and a lot of strokes to make one shell!

If I wanted to have four dies set-up at once, I'd get a Lee classic turret press. The shell then stays in one shell holder until it's done.

There is no turret to wear or wobble. Pressures are centered between two 7/8" solid steel shafts.

Unless I'm going blind, that statement is false! The ONLY die that is centered between those rods is the one in back. The others are in front of center, that would allow the platen to flex and bind on the rods! No thanks, bad design.

 

[spooky_t]

Thanks. I'm thinking about buying one of them and I wanted to know if they're worth the investment. They're more expensive than the other presses of similar design and I was wondering if the 'H' design is more robust than it's peers.
Specifically, is it better to have the entire lower platform rise to the dies or, in the case of single or multi-stage presses, just the one column/piston.
The more input the better. Thanks again.

 

[presspuller]

From a mechanical view point snuffy is right. Only one die is centered and the rest would put some amount of flex into the mix.
I would rather have a ridgid O frame press if I was wanting ridgid and turet press if I was wanting to speed things up.
I can not see anything that is gained with that press over the MANY cheaper ones out there.

 

[Walkalong]

The others are in front of center, that would allow the platen to flex and bind on the rods! No thanks, bad design.

It is a very sturdy press. Flexing is not an issue. I don't have one, but I knew someone who did and I liked it. It is very well built. I would rather have a progressive, which, by the way, has its dies "uncentered" as well.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

The only die/operation that is likely to cause any flexure in the front three stations of the 444 is sizing. Put that one in the rear position, centered in between the rods, and there's no flexure.

But even the most rigid O frame press still suffers from significant off-axis forces on the bottom of the ram from the toggle link and handle. I like the Forster Co-Ax better. It has far less off-axis thrust (the fulcrum is on the press frame in line with the die), and that thrust is constrained between two bearings, rather than cantilevered on one end of the bearing, as in traditional presses. For the ultimate in rigidity, take a look at the Corbin CSP-2 Mega-Mite.

Andy

 

[CMcDermott]

When you compare the H-frame press design where all support rods and top and bottom plates are firmly fixed together to a turret design, which has to have enough built in clearance to allow the die plate to rotate, the turret press will have much more flex. Even the old Hollywood turret presses that weighed 50+ lbs and took a dozen dies at once had a little flex.
The thing that I have noticed about the design of my Forster Co-Ax is that you get maximum leverage at the bottom of the stroke - where you don't need it, and minimum leverage at the top of the stroke where you do need the most power. The good thing about the Co-Ax is that it has leverage to spare, and with the aligning features of this press it is almost impossible to stick a case in a die. Really the Co-Ax has some of the best design features around, and if it was crossed with the old Hollywood design bottom plate linkage you could make a press that sizes 50 BMG cases in a single effortless stroke.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

The thing that I have noticed about the design of my Forster Co-Ax is that you get maximum leverage at the bottom of the stroke - where you don't need it, and minimum leverage at the top of the stroke where you do need the most power.

How do you figure that? The co-ax has maximum leverage at bottom and top, and minimum somewhere in between. When the three linkage pivot points are inline (at the bottom and again at the top of the ram's stroke), leverage is maximized.

Andy

 

[Walkalong]

The Co-Ax press, IMHO, is the best single stage press out there, for various reasons.

 

[koja48]

The thing that I have noticed about...my Forster

. . . is that IMHO, it's hands-down the finest single-station press I've ever owned! There is nothing about this press that I dislike.

 

[LHB1]

I bought an original C-H 3 station H press in 1964 and used it for 10-12 years before selling it to a friend. Regretted it so much that I quickly bought another (then sold under Bair name) which I still have. I use the back center station for sizing and the front outside stations for belling/seating. I hold case under powder measure (mounted on bench) without using a press station for that operation. These days I load .45 ACP and .44 Mag on a pair of Hornady LNL AP presses but for pistol volumes not justifying a progressive press, the CH H type press is my favorite. It also does a great job loading rifle cases if you neck size only. The leverage is not as strong as heavy duty single station presses by RCBS, Hornady, etc. but this is noticeable only when full length sizing large rifle brass or doing case forming operations where extreme leverage is needed.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

 

[spooky_t]

Thanks Everyone.
I'm still not sure which press to get. From LHB1's commments about full length sizing is a concern of mine since a friend of mine - whom I consider my reloading mentor - says that neck sizing is okay, but cases should still be full length resized about evry fourth or fifth reload.
I'm thinking a good single stage press is the way to go since I'm going to be loading minimal amounts (less than 100/month) of .45, .38, .357 and .308. Not enough - IMHO - to justify a the expense of a Dillon or Honady LnL, etc. progressives.
I sure wish there was someone close to me that had one of these to try. It'd make my decision so much easier.
Anyone in the Detroit or Coldwater areas of Michigan willing to allow me to watch you load some ammo?

 

[rwdwrt]

C-H Single Stage

I have a C - H single stage that looks identicle to that, only one die mount though. Just getting started reloading. I got the press from my uncle, he has had it for probably more than 20 yrs. It is still rock solid. My uncle also had an old Redding scale (hydraulic dampening) and an old Lyman #55 Ideal Powder Measure. All this stuff he got when I was just a child, Im 45 now. but it all seems to be in perfect condition.

 

[pinhead56]

regarding the Forster... I bought mine as a Bonanza about 1980 and it is one fine machine. Nothing to dislike. I recently bought a 'modern' progressive to up the volume and it requires lot's of fiddling... not that I'm complaining... I'm not, but the Coax is great.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

My wife bought me a co-ax last Christmas. I think I'll keep her... and my wife too.

I absolutely love the press. It is without a doubt, the best designed, best built, single stage press out there. From the effortless but powerful linkage/leverage system, to the snap-in die retaining system, to the automatic shell holder, to the spent primer handling, it is a magnificent press.

That said, there are a few caveats. Collet style bullet pullers, except for Forster's own "supefast" ones, will not work on it, though I've heard that one guy was able to use his hornady cam-lock puller on his co-ax, but I've not figured out how to use mine on the coax yet. RCBS primer pocket swager will not work, but the CH4D one will. Case activated powder measures will not work on the co-ax. Hornady seating dies will not work with the optional micrometer adjusting screw. The press cannot use Lee lock(less) rings on the dies, but can use almost any standard reloading die. I've used Forster and Hornady lock rings, of which I like the Hornady ones better.

Most incompatibilities are due to either the handle yoke passing over the top of the die (limited clearance), the floating die retaining system (the die is free to rotate), or the automatic shell holder (although Forster does sell an adapter plate that accepts standard or extended shell holders).

Andy

 

[10MMGary]

Count me in as another Forster co/ax fan. In a single stage nothing made today comes close in my opinion. Additionally once one gets a system established, handloading can be done quickly and safely. I have loaded over 100,000 rounds of various calibers on it and its still as smooth as when new.

 

[snuffy]

That said, there are a few caveats. Colet style bullet pullers, except for Forster's own "superfast" ones, will not work on it, though I've heard that one guy was able to use his hornady cam-lock puller on his co-ax, but I've not figured out how to use mine on the coax yet.

Like this, Jake.

Proud father of a Princess Daughter and of a good to go squared away Marine now serving in Iraq.
Simper Fi Son

Gary, tell your son I'm praying for him. My son,(Army), came home a year ago, after serving a year in both Iraq and Afghanistan. And thank him for me also!
Yup, the co-ax is THE Cadillac of single stage loading presses.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

Thanks Snuffy! I was trying to figure it out for my 45 colt cartridges, and the press handle was too far down by the time the cartridge entered the die. I guess I could put a block under the "ram" to keep it from going all the way back down to the bottom, and the handle going back over the top of the die. Then I could operate the cam-lock lever from behind the press handle.

Good to know it will work with rifle cartridges.

From the looks of it, you've got a few rounds through that press! It still keeps on tickin' though.

Andy

 

[TEDDY]

press

I used a Bair in 38 and one in 45 good press how ever you need 4 shell holders
and move shell from station to station.
on the coax to shorten the stroke get a longer pin or make one.its the one that opens the shell plates.screw it up or down to suit.I have a Bonanza.I think the Bonanza is an under rated press.its the best single stage made.the Lee clasic turett is a first class press.I use the older ones as I have severall and can't justify getting new ones.

 

[Ventnburn]

Thanks guys, I have been looking for CH's web page for a long time.

The 444 is the only press I have, load everthing on it, 35 Whelen, 308 Win, 223 Rem, 38/357 Mag, 44 Mag, 454 Casull, 45 Colt and ACP.

Get set up, start with the sizer center back, cap and charge (Lee thru the die) in a front corner, seat in other corner, have all 3 shell holders (handguns) full each stroke. Load 50 in less than 15 minutes.

Don't shoot as much rifle as pistol, load rifle as a single stage press, die center-back slot, size and de-prime, set the primer then use a measure to through charge, change die and seat bullet.

Also can run small 5 or 20 round batches for testing or experimenting, try that on your Dillon.

Spooky needs minimal amount per month, single station would work but this is much faster without the size and expence of progressives. Less time at the bench, more time shooting.

And it is strong, if you break it you were doing something wrong - tough luck.

 

[peterotte]

I have a similar one - a 3 stage - with a pistol powder measure on the side. The platten does tilt a bit but that is because the gudgen pin is not in line with the dies. I find it very fast and easy to use, moving the case from one station to the other. (I plan to fit a GUIDE ROD to the back of the platten one day).