Has anyone tried the .40 hardcast load by DoubleTap?

[roscoe]

My brother is looking for an automatic that could serve as woods protection. I know the 10mm is the real deal, but the ammo is expensive and firearms are few (yes, I know, Glock 29).

I saw this:
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_26&products_id=210

It is a 200 grain hardcast .40 caliber load that gets 1100 fps from a 4.5" barrel. That is pretty impressive (more power than the Remington UMC in 10mm).

He could carry a CZ75, which is what he wants, and have some confidence in the woods, if this ammo is for real. Any opinons? (BTW, I have purchased plenty of DT ammo, and have always had good experiences).

 

[wally]

No specific experience with the DoubleTap load, but in my experience 1100 fps from a hard cast bullet is about as fast as you'd want to go without having to worry about leading given that these are not being sized specifically for your measured bore diameter. As long as DoubleTap made the alloy hard enough should be a fine load with excellent penetration.

Probably not worth considering if your gun has polygonal rifling (Glocks, Witness Elite Match & Hunter, while the Witness standard, Stock, & Limited are conventional rifling) The Witness Standard is very much a clone of the CZ75B but made in 10mm and .45ACP which CZ doesn't make (except as the Dan Wesson 1911). The EAA Witness standard is generally under $400 here and for an extra $200 you can buy a .45ACP or .22LR upper for it to use cheaper and more readily available ammo for practice.

--wally.

 

[capitolpeak]

I was interested in the 10mm hardcasts for just this purpose. Tell your bro to get the 10mm. Sure theres only a few guns that are available but c'mon,, two of them are glocks! plus seriously man the difference in price between the two is like $2 per 50. Not enough to justify giving up that extra power especially for woods protection.

 

[roscoe]

True, the 10mm Glock would probably be a better choice, but he wants the CZ. I am going to be shepherding him through buying his first pistol, and I have great fears about having him buy anything from EAA. If the rumors are true, the pistols (from Tanfoglio) are supposed to be good, but if you happen to get a bad one and need service from EAA, you have just entered the seventh circle.

 

[wally]

Use the search, I think you will find most EAA Witness problems are with the polymer guns. The steel framed guns are generally fine. If he really likes the CZ 75 and wants a 10 or .45 definitely look at the steel frame witness guns. Their prices are low enough even if you have to send it to a smith it'd be about the same net as a Glock.

The .45 & 10mm Glocks are way too fat for my hand, and my Glock 17 9mm is the gun I shoot the worst because the grip just doesn't suit my hand, although its very accurate off sandbags.

--wally.

 

[boomer1911a1]

+1 for Wally

EAA Witnesses in steel feel great and run fine. They're a great bargain.

 

[BlindJustice]

Great stuff ask a question about an ammo maker type/choice after
the decision is made as to caliber and make/model of gun and get told
to get a different gun in a different caliber.

The DT load sounds great hopefully DT has a hard cast
alloy they cast them from or the supplier does.

If your bro likes the CZ grip and handling more power to him.

 

[roscoe]

I understand what they are saying, and I really like the 10mm cartridge. But, if you go to the 10mm forum, there are lots of horror stories about cracked frames in the Witness guns, and the subsequent failure to get decent support form EAA. If it were a range toy, OK, I say take your chances. But this gun is for business - it simply cannot fail when it is needed.

Check out the Witness tales of terror:
http://www.10mmtalk.com/index.php?showforum=3

The original question was really about the potential this round has for penetration. Frankly, it looks like a pretty hot load, and it SEEMS like it has good potential for woods defense.

 

[BlindJustice]

Hey,Roscoe,

I did do some Googleing and found several good reviews of the ammo but
not that particuliar load. I did look at some of the other
loads in calibers I shoot. THey mention low muzzle blast for much of the loads. Makes one wonder what powder is used. As well, not too many
are rated +P and they mention SAAMI standards.

Would it be possible to as you say 'shepard' the brother into trying
a bit lighter load for practice or has he shot pistols but just hasn't owned one?

 

[mavracer]

if you go to the 10mm forum, there are lots of horror stories about cracked frames in the Witness guns

but have you seen what some of those guys load.I've seen claims of 135s@1800fps

 

[roscoe]

Would it be possible to as you say 'shepard' the brother into trying
a bit lighter load for practice or has he shot pistols but just hasn't owned one?

Oh, yes definitely. In fact, he really would have no use for the monster DoubleTap loads other than the woods. Downloaded 10mm loads, like the Winchester silvertips, or other cheaper loads like the PMC, seem to be plenty for normal self-defense or plinking. The only need for the full-house loads would be bears, biker gangs, and mimes.

But, still, it has to cycle every time, and if it doesn't, well, that would be a pity if you were being attacked by mimes. And I don't want to have to deal with bad customer service.

That was why I thought the .40 would suffice, with normal, cheaper loads for everyday gunfights, and the 200 grain hardcast for the woods.

 

[wally]

I guess I got confused and thought he was asking about 10mm. If he wants a .40 and likes the CZ, well just get the CZ75B in .40S&W caliber and be happy. I thought the 10 mm gun suggestions were in line with the comment about 10mm guns being few.

I'd certainly not advise a Witness in 9mm or 40S&W since CZ makes these and would be a better choice.

I shoot a lot of Bushwacker hard cast 180gr bullets in .40S&W using 5.2gr Unique. Never chrono'd them, but mixing them in the mag with Winchester Ranger 180gr SXT its hard to tell which is which other than the extra smoke from the cast bullet lube, so I consider it a good practice load. No leading issues in a variety of guns.

--wally.

 

[busy_squirrel]

That was why I thought the .40 would suffice, with normal, cheaper loads for everyday gunfights

I have GOT to quote that!