Roy,Not trying to be hateful Just tired of the trend of people from law enforcement on down spending more on bigger gun or more capacity or what ever instead of learning to shoot If you don't have the basics down, if you don't have a plan, if every one in the house doesn't know the plan you have problems if you have an intruder . Way to many have an AR with every gadget they can afford bolted on it and 10 30 round mags stacked on the bed stand They have not fired 30 rounds total out of them . My guns don't even see defense duty until they have run 500 rds down range .
We are talking home defense you get loved ones behind you call 911 and wait unless the bad guy brings it to you . In that situation nothing beats a shotgun I have fired everything from a barrett M82 to an m60 to an m16 ar's Ak47's
No I have not shot at B.G. I have worked with dog warden on dogs killing livestock I had a 65lb dog come out of a collapsed shed he was in the air when I shot I was covered in blood but unhurt I could not have made that shot with an AR rifle I would not have got the safety off . I later killed a st Bernard coming as hard as he could from around 45 ft I doubt a 223 would have stopped him 6.8 or 308 would have and yes that shot I could have made with an AR style gun. The worse situation I got myself into was in Ok. We had a steer that weighed 800-1000 lbs hurt another ranch hand (I was a ranch hand at the time too) I kicked him in the nose where he stopped with out moving my other foot from where I shot One shot is all I would get in all three of these encounters
This is why I don't count on getting a second shot off
First I put myself in these situations
second why is it you have 300 cattle the 299 good ones are out in the open munching on grass and the only one that wants to stomp you into dust is in the thick bush
Roy
I don't see you as being hateful at all, its just a discussion. Sorry, I was overly sarcastic with my last post.
I don't think anyone debates that you need to learn how to shoot. But, even the best marksmen miss, and when even they don't miss, the projectile doesn't always have the intended effect.
You should read about the 1986 miami shootout:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_F...8QFjAA&usg=AFQjCNHdOd8o3ZEgtGwS8C7442WuChoymw
Platt received a center mass, fatal wound from an agent's 9mm about 30 seconds into the fight. If he had received that wound on an operating table, a surgeon could not have saved him.
After receiving that wound, he fought on for 5 minutes using his high capacity, semi-auto rifle to dominate 8 FBI agents, killing 2 and wounding 5. The agents were armed with handguns an a Remington 870.
145 rounds were fired, every gun put into action went empty at some point. One of the agents couldn't reload his gun because of injuries to his hands. When you read that article, take note of how many times people were shot in the hands and arms and think of what that might do to your ability to operate a pump action gun.
I'm not saying that this is a likely home defense scenario, far from it.
But, it does show that 1) gun fights can quickly turn into high round count affairs and it isn't because of poor marksmanship 2) The first shot, even the first fatal hit, isn't always the deciding factor and 3) There is a distinct advantage to having a semiautomatic rifle with a large magazine.
And by the way, there really isn't a huge difference in cost between an 870P and an M4. When you compare the cost of 12 gauge ammunition to the cost of 5.56, you'll be able to train more for less money with the M4.
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