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havent any of us been in an argument?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by thorn726, Oct 18, 2005.

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  1. thorn726

    thorn726 Member

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    between what i hear from the typical anti gunner where i live, and what i just saw about that school board meeting, a question is raised---

    haven't plenty of you gotten into arguments, maybe even run into some person you really don't get along with, be shouting even, and never even think of pulling out your gun??

    here, carrying is quite illegal, but regardless, i've had some pretty heavy confrontations on the street and i wont even allow it to escalte to violence- if i had a gun present, i dont see myself using it as a shouting accesory.

    i would think it is ONLY a last resort defense tool

    yet folks are convinced, gun owners get into ANY disagreement, they will use gun to resolve it.

    any experiences? MORE- any ideas on how to change this view of us???

    also, anyone ever gotten yelled at by some angry person for whatever reason, and walked away rather than pull your gun.........

    follow? like is it possible for everyone to have guns at all times and still have disagreements, or are we looking at the OK corral?
    i think it is possible without problems

    the big factor is gangster idiots who DO think you man your drug turf and keep your respect by shooting, just saw some kids blasting music trying to sell their cds.... "sks and calicos...." just what we need to hear.

    anyway, in the inner city, it's a lost cause to think gangbangers will dorp the guns and fight/ debate like men, but at least maybe somehow some people can be convinced, espeically if we have examples-
    that REAL gunners use the tool for defense, not offense, and particularly, we don't use guns against words.........
     
  2. Ryder

    Ryder Member

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    Not that I can recall.
     
  3. antsi

    antsi Member

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    I don't get into a lot of shouting matches, but I have gotten upset at people. Being upset is not a reason to shoot people. The reason liberals expect gun owners to start shooting every time they get into a disagreement is because they are ruled by their emotions and have no self-control. It's why they want the government to run their lives for them, and also why they imagine us (gun owners) lashing out mindlessly with any weapon available any time someone rubs us the wrong way.
     
  4. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    we just arent as out-of-control of our anger as the whiny liberals wish we were.
     
  5. Ezekiel

    Ezekiel Member

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    "I've seen it happen."

    Now, these folks were felons, and shouldn't be armed anyway (Federal sentence), but were they felons the first time?

    "Normal" gun owners are readily compared to these guys: which is why we must differentiate ourselves.
     
  6. XLMiguel

    XLMiguel Member

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    I'm opinionated, sometimes mouthy, and not shy. I can articulate my position, substantiate it, argue some, try to recognize the presence of other intelligence in the room, but at some point, I'm also pretty good at just agreeing to disagree or walking away from stupid/rude/uncivil/ recalcitrant people - it's not worth it.

    I learned a while ago that fighting doesn't solve anything, the satifaction from smacking a moron who desparately needs it is very fleeting (and the follow-on is usually real annoying), and the only real reason to fight is self-defense. Walking away is easy - I have nothing to prove to anyone and here are only a few people's opinions about me that I actually care about. If it's a genuine self-defense situation, I get pretty vicious, pretty quickly - I don't start it, but I will finish it. Fortunately, such events have been few and far between in my life.

    Edited to add: Getting a CHP has enhanced my ability to walk away, a direct result of trainng and educating myself on my rights and responsibilities involving lethal force. And as noted previously, there's no point in arguing with a fool - they drag you down totheir level and beat you with experience.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2005
  7. pcf

    pcf Member

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    Thorn726, maybe you should start carrying an axe. I'm sure bloody stumps will regret not having a firearm, when you start ending the argument. Okay, maybe not a good plan.
     
  8. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    They've been predicting the streets will run with blood for years and years and years. Still hasn't happened. No doubt never will.
     
  9. CAnnoneer

    CAnnoneer Member

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    I can't see how guns correlate with arguments. Arguments are verbal, guns are physical. The difference is pretty clear-cut in my mind. I concur with above statements that ultimately it is a question of self-control and mental clarity. Only kids and drunks equate an insult with a punch.
     
  10. Capteddie

    Capteddie Member

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    To say "Gun owners" will do anything, is an extreme over generalization. It's like saying "Car owners" will run over some one they argue with. There are responsible and irresponsible gun owners, just as there are responsible and irresponsible car owners. Criminals own guns, cops own guns, soldiers own guns, and law abiding citizens like me who just want to be left the hell alone own guns, so to use the term "Gun owners" is to paint with an awfully wide brush don't cha think :confused:
     
  11. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    hey thorn!

    I carried all the time in SF and Bezerkley, got into lots of arguments over my GW stickers on my motorcycle, sporting the american flag pin on my lapel.
    Had wannabe gang members try to start fights with me when I lived in North Beach (every weekend is a brawl there).
    I carried all the time and never even thought of using it despite tons of arguments and threats of violence.

    you know....this post just reminded me how great it is living in America.
    I will never move back to SF untill we get the 2nd Amendment as the law of the land
     
  12. Kurush

    Kurush Member

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    I for one brutally murder every person I have a disagreement with, that's just the values that were instilled in me growing up.
     
  13. wingnutx

    wingnutx Member

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    Last shouting match I got into, all 3 of us involved were carrying full-auto weapons.

    Nobody got shot or even threatened with a firearm.
     
  14. thorn726

    thorn726 Member

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    this is pretty much what i am getting at=

    so how do we get people to realize this is how the majority are?

    its amazing, but people around here really seem to think people who buy guns use them in arguments

    ha HA ha
     
  15. thorn726

    thorn726 Member

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    uh, YEAH one would think i AM using an awfully wide brush!!!

    i guess we'll see how wide the brush really is around here after the election.

    i am hoping we a re not all seen this way, but so far, the number one, vast majority reaction in the bay area is "guns are dangerous, they are only for killing, they arn't effective for self defense, they only escalte"

    on and on until you want to throw up, bang your head against a wall, and get murdered by some jerk with a knife just to prove your point.
    ok im going a little overboard there.........
     
  16. artherd

    artherd member

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    Most people do this thing called projection.

    Where they think about what THEY would do with a gun, and apply it to everyone else!
     
  17. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    A few years back, a guy down the block decided to loudly yell at and berate me in public, after my puppy still in training had gotten away from me for the umpteenth time. He heard me calling for the dog, and followed him to my house, where he stood about 15 yards away on the neighbor's property carrying on at length.

    He never knew it, but I was well armed at the time.


    At no time did I consider shooting him because he was yelling at me.

    As the encounter turned increasingly bizarre, I took a quick look around to determine that my lines of retreat were clear, and picked out a few fallback points, but that was about it.

    After he refused several reasonable offers to square it up by seeing to whatever poop was on his lawn, I flat out told him that since he seemed to be more interested in shouting at me in public than in dealing with the issue at hand that I was leaving, and that he was to have a good evening.

    -------------------

    As for "how to change this view of us", you have to realize that this view actually has NOTHING to do with US.

    It is held as a direct result of defects of the viewholder.

    It is correctable only when the viewholder is acting out of ignorance, AND is willing to update his view upon presentation of evidence to the contrary.

    _Sometimes_, this actually happens, as the result of the viewholder interacting with responsibly armed citizens. Usually, if this comes about, it happens when they get the news that someone they know/trust/respect keeps and bears on a regular basis. More often than not, though, they'll classify their friend as "the exception", and continue to hold the general view that people carry arms to prevail in disputes.

    There are also many other reasons why people might hold this view, but there's not a whole lot we can do about them without thorozine and a Psych license.
     
  18. SgtGunner

    SgtGunner Member

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    I remember a time, I was at a friends mom's 82nd birthday party. Her brother was in town. Fat sloppy little troll of a liberal, and has been living with mommy since high school never had a "real" job(hes 42)

    Anyway, somehow the topic of gun control came up. We "discussed" it for a while and when I realized he was a complete moron I told him so poiltely. At that point he thought it wise to grab my shirt by the collar and start irrationally screaming in my face, I calmly and politely made it known that if he did not remove his hand from me I would remove it from him. To this he says , "see what I mean, all of you gun guys are violent and insane" (as hes grabbing me by the shirt mind you) This man came close that day to eating his teeth, but being the controlled person I am, I was well aware that he was not equipped mentally or physically to defend himself.

    Did I fight, threaten or pull out the 1911 that was on my hip the whole time? No. Did he know I was armed? NO. So much for the OK Corral.
     
  19. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer Member

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    I've been married for 35 years, and I can't recall EVER having an argument with my wife! Sure, we have had some DISAGREEMENTS through the years, but never of the "heated" variety.

    I've also carried a concealed weapon for 35+ years, as a full-time police officer and as a retired officer. Resorting to "deadly force" has always been on my list of options, but only if several other things have clicked into my brain....such as deadly force being "reasonable", "justifiable", "necessary" and the "ONLY" thing left in the "trick bag" to use!

    Maybe it was the countless hours of training that I went through, as a police officer.....or maybe it boils down to having good common sense! It is pure idiocy to resort to deadly force just because someone pisses you off! Of course, if THEY escalate the situation by producing a weapon, then arguing time is OVER!
     
  20. thorn726

    thorn726 Member

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    you know, im really starting to think maybe i should cut and paste this thread.
    what is wrong with people. obviously, we CAN get heated and still not pull out a gun. great stuff guys

    this one is great- shoulda beaten the guy sensless with your hands.
    excellent point
     
  21. one-shot-one

    one-shot-one Member

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    if?

    if you had not had the pistol on you would you have been more likely to teach this guy the lesson that he so desperately need to learn?
    i find that i am less likely to even acknowalge some folk when i am armed but if i am not the desire to "school" them is sometimes great.
     
  22. Johnnybgood

    Johnnybgood Member

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    The only way to change this view of us

    Is to purchase and run a major news/entertainment network and start showing pro-gun news and shows. Especially cop shows that portrays the legal CHL carrier in a positive light. The problem that you are looking at is just that the media is biased against us and will not give us equal time.
     
  23. GunGoBoom

    GunGoBoom member

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    That's why many anti-gun people became anti-gun in the first place. They make the huge logical error that I'll call "projection".

    They think, either consciously or even subconsciously, that "ya know, if *I* had a gun, and *I* got into a heated argument, the *I* would definitely or quite possibly draw my gun to emphasize my point, or if really really angered, even use it." They then project this fact (related solely to their own extreme character flaw of the inability to curtail their actions with correct choices - i.e. control their temper) onto others, and thereby mistakenly assume that "if I'm this way, I'm sure most if not all others are too". For some reason, people's natural tendency is to project in this manner. So they then support policies which would disarm ALL people, even those who can control themselves, and distinguish between an argument, and a life-threatening self-defense situation, when the proper course of action would be to choose to not be armed themselves (which they do), yet leave everyone else the hell alone (which they don't). Of course, y'all already knew that...
     
  24. walking arsenal

    walking arsenal Member

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    It's not?:confused:

    I mean:uhoh:

    It's not! :eek:
     
  25. kbarrett

    kbarrett Member

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    Yep.

    If you want to run people's lives for them, then you will probably assume that any armed person wants to do the same to you. Scratch a victim-disarmament supporter, and you will ALWAYS discover a control-freak or an out of control loon...

    Sounds like a good .sig line ... I think I'll use it.
     
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