Having a leading problem, 45ACP

[thumper723]

Here is what I am loading:

230gr Lead RN (ZERO Brand)
4.7gr Bullseye
Winchester WLP Primer
1.274 OAL

Shot in a SA 1911A1. 5" Barrel.

Getting EXTREME leading in the first 1" of barrel. Took better part of the evening to clean it with Shooters Choice lead remover. Had to use a brass pick to work some of it off. This was with 100 rounds shot. FWIW, I shot the 100 rounds fairly quickly. The grooves are 2/3 full of lead up to the lands.

Any ideas for a possible solution before I go load the next batch?

 

[Steve C]

New barrel? If it hasn't been worn smooth by shooting jacketed bullets you can get leading due to the new barrels roughness, esp with an OEM barrel. Lapping the barrel could help.

The other reason is that harder cast bullets do not seal the in the bore at the low pressures of rounds like the .45 ACP and .38 spl. Once read that the needed pressure to obdurate the base of the bullet enough to seal the bore could be calculated by multiplying the BHN (Brinell Hardness number) by something around 2,300 psi +/- (off the top of my head). What happens is since the bullet isn't sealing, hot gasses are flowing around the sides of the bullet and melting the lead, depositing it on you barrel. A .001" greater diameter would probably solve this but unless you cast your own that isn't an option.

I've found that lubricating commercial cast bullets by coating them with Liquid Alox by Lee will usually eliminate leading. Liquid Alox is moderately messy but the trick is to use only a small quantity, a little goes a long way, and coat the bullets lightly. Then allow them to dry for a couple days before loading. I usually throw a 100 bullets in a plastic margarine tub, drizzle a small amount of the Liquid Alox on top of them and then roll them around in the tub to distribute the lubricant. I then put them on a plastic tray on top of wax paper to dry for the next couple days before loading. One little $3 bottle of Liquid Alox will do a couple thousand bullets.

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Try crimping with a Lee FCD.

 

[HSMITH]

I am thinking the opposite of what Dave is thinking, back your crimp WAY off. I suspect the crimp measurement is a lot smaller than .471-.472"........ If it is, back it out to .472".

The bullet you are using is pretty hard and has a hard lube, both of which cause it to need pressure to obturate and get lube to flow. You have the pressure to flow the lube with your load since it is a fairly stout load and the leading is only in the first part of the barrel. This leads me to believe that the bullets are not fitting the bore well in the first inch.

Get some Chore Boy scouring pads, they will take a leading situation like you hade down to a 2 minute cleaning session tops.

 

[Uncle Don]

I suggest two things. First, make sure your bullets are at least .452 - .453 which filles the groove diameter of the bore. The second thing you can do does result in some smoke but will defineately stop the leading and that is to place the bullets in a container and use some Lee liquid alox on them. Toss them around and drop them on a piece of wax paper to dry for a day. Load them up and the leading problem will gone. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that it may very well remove some of the lead that is already in the bbl.

 

[ribbonstone]

Pretty much has to be a gas blow-by problem to lead the breech end heavily...bullet not filling the bore and gas shooting past on the sides eroding bits of lead....could proably proove it definately by exam of a couple of captured fired bullets not too distored by impact.

It's the breech end...so it isn't velocity (the beeech end being the LOWEST velocity) and not running out of lube....so it has to be fit.

 

[robertbank]

To make your life easier when it comes to removing the lead in your barrel get some Chor Boy copper pads your wife uses to clean her pots. Make sure they are the pure copper pads. Rap a piece around an old brass brush. The lead will be out of your barrel in about three to four strokes. Much easier than a Lewis Lead remover and much faster than using chemicals.

I cast my own boolits from wheelweights and went to water quenching them and using a harder lube. Solved the leading problems you described in my Para and Norincos. I have recovered hundreds of 9MM and .45acp boolits off our range in the spring and have yet to find any indication of the magical oblituration at the base of the boolit. I agree gas maybe leaking around the bullet but as for lead melting off the bullet...I just have not seen any evidence of it. Personally I don't think the bullet is in the barrel long enough for this to happen (72 one thousanths of a second if it leaves a 5" barrel at around 800 fps). Really true with bevel base bullets which you find in commercial cast bullets.

Take Care

 

[ribbonstone]

With a little space to leak past the sides, some of the the gas is "jetted" (forced through a smaller opening, so it is moving very very fast) and it more or less erodes some of the SIDE of the bullet as it squirts past. Will often recover a flt based bullet that looks like a lop-sided bevel base (or a bevel based bullet that is more beveled on one side than another).

Agree, haven't recovered any showing base melting. Have recovered some showing eroded rifling and even some with channels eroded along the gooves.

 

[Jim Watson]

Zero bullets are swaged and carry little lube.
Load them light - as light as will function the action - or get something else.
You can fool with more crimp, less crimp, or added lube and may get some improvement, but a commercial cast bullet will serve you better if you want full power ammo.

 

[snuffy]

zero bullets=soft bullets

Zero bullets are, as J Watson says swaged bullets. You simply cannot swage hardened lead!

SO, that being the case, it HAS to be bullet fit,(too small a diameter, relative to bore size), or lack of a good lube. It's been 30 years since I was shooting zero bullets out of a series 70 1911 colt. But I had to add lube to those 200 swc zero bullets to prevent leading. What I did was, spray the bullets with silicone spray! Yes it worked! Darn hard to pick up the bullets, they were really slick/slippery!

My present .45 is a SA 1911-A1. I use two cast bullets in it with no leading build up. One is the old standby 230 RN, a lyman 4 cavity mold. The other is a Lee 6 cavity 200 RN Flat nose bullet. Both were cast of wheelweights and tumble lubed with Lee liquid alox. The 200's are loaded with 5.5 WW 231, the 230's I drop down a half grain. I haven't chronoed them, they are for IPSC and IDPA close up shooting, so I don't really care what they are doing.

 

[thumper723]

Would it be best if I tried a different brand bullet, and load a batch the same as the zeros?

Barrel has ~2000 rounds thru it, about 50/50 FMJ/Lead.

Accuracy with the load seems OK. Just this amount of leading I found kind of disturbing.

 

[Rico567]

For many years, I loaded a .451 200 gr. H&G #68 bullet that I cast myself with one of H&G's superb 4-cavity gang moulds. I used a mix of linotype and wheelweights. My usual load in my 1911 was 5.3 gr. of 231, and in my Bar-Sto barrel I never, EVER, got a trace of leading. I ascribe this to the very hard bullet produced by my alloy (all swaged lead bullets are very soft, or they couldn't swage them) and the single but generous lube groove in the bullet.
When I gave up casting, I had leading issues no matter what lead bullet I tried. I finally gave up and started using the Rainier plated 200 gr. FP bullet for .45 ACP, and have been happy ever since.