Hawken Copies

[ThomasT]

After my thread on the T/C renegade Rifle pretty much ran its course and it went into a discussion about J&S Hawken Rifles and the various copies I decided to post this link discussing authentic Hawkens, near replica Hawkens and the not so accurate "Hawken" rifles by TC and others. Its an interesting read and gives a little more insight into the development of the Guns sparked by a resurgence in Hawken Rifles mentioned in movies and books.

http://grrw.org/the-heyday-of-the-hawken/

Notice how in the letter sent to the editor one reader complained about all the Hawken articles in the Muzzleloading mags of the day. I understand his frustration because I did the same thing with all the 1911 articles and all the AR-15 threads here and on a couple of other forums.

Anyway I hope you guys enjoy the read. And remember all opinions are valid. But they are more easily tolerated when sweetened with cool replies and room for the opinions of others.

 

[troy fairweather]

After my thread on the T/C renegade Rifle pretty much ran its course and it went into a discussion about J&S Hawken Rifles and the various copies I decided to post this link discussing authentic Hawkens, near replica Hawkens and the not so accurate "Hawken" rifles by TC and others. Its an interesting read and gives a little more insight into the development of the Guns sparked by a resurgence in Hawken Rifles mentioned in movies and books.

http://grrw.org/the-heyday-of-the-hawken/

Notice how in the letter sent to the editor one reader complained about all the Hawken articles in the Muzzleloading mags of the day. I understand his frustration because I did the same thing with all the 1911 articles and all the AR-15 threads here and on a couple of other forums.

Anyway I hope you guys enjoy the read. And remember all opinions are valid. But they are more easily tolerated when sweetened with cool replies and room for the opinions of others.

the copies are nice guns and most shoot good. i dont care if there not real copies thats not why i like them they are nice for hunting. if i wont real copies id build one. thanks for the link ill check it out.

 

[maint1517]

Thanks for the link Ratshooter.

 

[arcticap]

I enjoyed the article but only accept the reasons for the 1970's "explosion" in Hawken production with a grain of salt.
That's because here in Connecticut for example, the deer population was exterminated from about 1700 until 1900.
In 1907, legislation was passed to allow farmers to kill nuisance deer.
And then not until 1975 did we have our first deer hunting season.

Even in Massachusetts, their initial muzzle loading seasons only allowed smooth bores, so Thompson Center basically made the .56 smooth bore Renegade just for them.

Was it the movie Jeremiah Johnson or the expanding deer population and new deer seasons that contributed more to the exploding Hawken production back then?

The muzzle loader deer hunting regulations were much stricter back then, with consideration for deer conservation and management.
But since the deer population has grown so much since then, the regulations have been liberalized in many states which has led to the explosion of alternative muzzle loader designs.
For example in Mississippi, primitive firearms now include single shot cartridge rifles such as the H&R's which has led many to sell off their traditional muzzle loaders.
IMHO hunting laws and regulations greatly affect which deer hunting guns are produced and sold now, just as they did back then.
I also thought that the Hawken type rifles were a little bit too heavy for woods hunting.
Modern steel allowed my 1st ML rifle to be a lightweight .50 half stock with barrel flats measuring 13/16th's of an inch across.
I chalked up the difference to choosing between either a heavier plains rifle or a lighter weight woods rifle.

 

[Mn Fats]

Good read. I always heard Jeremiah did for Hawken replicas what Dirty Harry did for .44 29's.

 

[tbob38]

No mention of the Lyman Great Plains rifle?

 

[ThomasT]

No mention of the Lyman Great Plains rifle?

Its mentioned.

The market was so big during the Heyday of the Hawken in the 1970’s and early 1980’s that other companies such as CVA started importing rifles from Italy and Spain that they called Hawken rifles. These were no more authentic looking than the TC Hawken, but competed directly with it. Lyman entered the market with a rifle that has some similarities to a Hawken, but they wisely called it the Great Plains Rifle.

 

[Loosenock]

I have one of the Santa Fe Hawken rifles mentioned in the above link. I bought it used and abused. The web between the barrel channel and ram rod hole was split from nose cap to wedge pin. The lock mortice and panel was mutilated allowing the lock to wobble. I made a few "period" repairs to it and it turned out to be an excellent shooting rifle. The stock was glued and glass repaired with elk rawhide and sinew wrap.


Note the steel plate fitted around the lock on the lock panel.

loosenock

 

[ThomasT]

Thats neat loosenock. If you have close up pictures of the lock and stock repair I would like to see them. And the repairs look authentic to me.

 

[Loosenock]

Thats neat loosenock. If you have close up pictures of the lock and stock repair I would like to see them. And the repairs look authentic to me.

I'll see if I can get them to transfer.

The steel plate around the lock covers the lock panel entirely. The screws are flamed blued.


Buffalo sinew


Thanks for your interest.

loose

 

[tbob38]

Its mentioned.

My mistake, I was looking for a tad more.

 

[Loosenock]

I'll see if I can get them to transfer.

The steel plate around the lock covers the lock panel entirely. The screws are flamed blued.
View attachment 802494 View attachment 802496

Buffalo sinew
View attachment 802499

Thanks for your interest.

loose

My mistake, I was looking for a tad more.

 

[Loosenock]

This is all I have .

'loose

 

[ThomasT]

You did an excellent repair to that rifle to keep it working. And it looks just like what you would expect someone to do in the field or at a workshop with just basic tools. You could probably sell that gun to a museum and they would think its an actual Hawken or other early gun from the 19th century.

 

[ThomasT]

My mistake, I was looking for a tad more.

No problem. They really didn't say much about the Lyman GP rifle. They were more interested in replica Hawkens that followed the correct lines of the original guns. If it was available at the time the Pedersoli rifle may have gotten a little praise from the writer of the article.

 

[ThomasT]

I was friends with the knife maker Jack Crain who made the knives for the movie "Predator" with Arnold Swartzenagger in it and he had a 45 caliber FL with a rawhidw repair on the wrist just like a lot of the originals did after swatting an Injun with it. Arnold gave Jack the Flak Jacket he wore in the movie. I am not small but that jacket was way too big for me. At the time I weighed 200 pounds and stand 6'1". Now 250 and 6'1".