HB wadcutter info please

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by deadeye dick, Feb 18, 2020.

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  1. deadeye dick

    deadeye dick Member

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    New to HBWC's I have loaded DEWC. Is there a difference between the two as far as COAL and load data? This weekend I bought some 148 Gr. LHBWC's in .357 dia. for my BH
    My Question's are: The DEWC's measure .572 in length and the HB's are.622 I crimp the DEWC's at the crimp line which is about .020 above flush. The crimp line on the new HBWC is about .188 from the end which gives a OAL of 1.296 compared to 1.242 for the DEWC. Is this ok? That being said, the manual gives the OAL as 1.160. This doesn't seem right.
    Can I use the same data for the DE as the HB given it is the same weight, 148 Gr.'s
     
  2. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm member

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    The gold standard for HB wadcutters in the .38 Spl is 2.7 gr Bullseye. If you go to hot you can blow the skirt off.

    They should be seated to the crimp line.
     
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  3. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    When I was shooting on my department's pistol team, I was loading about 20,000 HBWC bullets per year for my use, and the other team members were loading about the same. Every one of those bullets was loaded flush with the case mouth, with a very slight roll crimp. That's how I load them today, over the load Texas10mm suggested, and I still give them a slight roll crimp.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
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  4. nofendertom

    nofendertom Member

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    I'm with Texas10mm---seat them to the crimp line.
     
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  5. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Member

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    To add what Texas10mm said, if you blow the skirt off a hollow base wadcutter, it could get stuck in the barrel. If the skirt is not cleared before the next shot, it could be disastrous.

    So, the answer to your question is "not necessarily".

    There should be enough hollow base wadcutter load data out there so that you do not have to substitute data. Both Hodgdon and Alliant on line data sources have load data for hollow base wadcutters.
     
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  6. brewer12345

    brewer12345 Member

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    DEWC you can load pretty hot because there is no skirt to blow off. I am pretty sure that the plated ones I load with 4 grains of HP38 would have complete penetration on an assailant. HBWC is a different animal. I like 2.2 grains of trail boss with HBWC. Soft shooting and real accurate.
     
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  7. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    All the HBWC I have loaded were seated flush with a roll crimp for PPC speedloader or M52 feeding. Most at 3.2 gr W231.
    Haven't seen one with a crimp groove so far back.
     
  8. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    Another long ago PPC shooter who has shot many thousands of rounds of HBWC.

    We always loaded the wadcutter flush with the mouth of the case and roll crimped the casemouth over the front. Bullseye guys were loading the same spec for their 1911 and S&W M-52 chambered in .38Spl
     
  9. deadeye dick

    deadeye dick Member

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    Went to the Hodgdon site. They claim a COAL of 1.160 Should this be disputed. All you guys say flush with case mouth or to crimp line
     
  10. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    1.160" is the maximum OAL. A .38Spl case length is 1.155".

    Loading a HBWC flush with the case mouth is how factory WC ammo is loaded
     
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  11. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    Can you post a picture of the HBWC bullet that you are loading?

    Most HBWC bullets that I've encountered don't have a crimp groove. Could you be referring to the lube groove?
     
  12. deadeye dick

    deadeye dick Member

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    I don't have the knowledge to send pix. That is probably the lube groove. Thanks for all the help. I learned a lot.
     
  13. mdi

    mdi Member

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    If your HBWC have a crimp groove use it and disregard "book" OAL (BTW what manufacturer?). I believe one of the main reasons for seating flush was for the use in S&W Mod 52 target guns and many reloaders just used the same info for revolvers. I have seated HBWC and DEWC from flush up to 3/16"-1/4" (or as long as will fit the cylinder) during some reloading/accuracy experiments. (I didn't want the crimp over the end of the bullet to affect bullet diameter). I found very little, if any, difference in accuracy. If you want to start loading HBWC go to https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol for 38 Special, 148 gr. bullet, all powder manufacturers, all powders, hit "get data". You will see 18 different powders and starting/max load data...
     
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  14. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    Revolver shooters loaded the WC flush and roll crimp over the front to prevent the case mouth from hanging up when reloading with speed loaders
     
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  15. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    Absolutely correct! After putting literally many thousands of rounds of 148 gr. HBWC's downrange during practices and matches while shooting PPC, I can tell you that's the reason. In the hundreds of PPC matches I shot during the 1970's, I never saw a Model 52, or 1911 converted to .38 Spl., in a match. Revolvers were king, and I still have my PPC gun.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
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  16. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Maybe like the 2nd pic? You can see a "cannelure" in the 1st pic.
    Light Roll Crimp on a 38 HBWC Pic 1.JPG
    Light Roll Crimp Into Cannelure on  .38 Spl HBWC Pic 1.JPG
     
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  17. deadeye dick

    deadeye dick Member

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    Walkalong, Yes I load DEWC as in pic # 1 R/S. Maybe a little deeper in pic #2 as the end has a recess and a bump in the center.
    Yes MDI went to that site, gave me all the info I need
     
  18. Hanshi

    Hanshi Member

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    I've also loaded and fired thousands of wadcutter loads. HB bullets are crimped just over the leading edge as described previously. They have to be loaded with lighter powder charges to keep from blowing the skirt. DEWC bullets were crimped at the top as well depending on the exact bullet design.
     
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  19. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Me too, at least that brand, which is all I shot.
     
  20. kidneyboy

    kidneyboy Member

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    148gr HBWC loaded flush

    2016-productphotos_0011_38spl_148r_hbwc_new__1__96519.1488304152.jpg
     
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  21. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Member

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    First, I do not compete in bullseye or PPC competition so those guys have particular requirements for the loads. I shoot wadcutters for their accurate, soft shooting properties.

    Generally, for revolvers, I load wadcutters, both solid base and hollow base with a bit of the bullet extending from the case much like Walkalong's post #16. These days, I taper crimp the case to remove the belling on the case mouth.

    Recently, I've been dabbling with a Colt 1911 with a 38 Special barrel. These rounds are loaded flush with a bit of a roll crimp over the end of the bullet.

    If I was competing, I follow what the top shooters load.
     
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