I am in the VERY early stages of planning to build a patrol rifle/tactical rifle. I love the M1 Garand / M14 action so I considered a Mini-14. However I have read so many people posting that they get 1.5"-3" groups at 100 yards. I could deal with 1.5" but 3" makes me a little nervous. I want a rifle that I would feel confident taking a head shot on a human from 75-100 yards if necessary. (I'm a fairly proactive officer in a city that gets pretty rough sometimes). I found a heavy barrel replacement but I want to know if anyone has used one and what sort of results they had. I could always build another AR15 (had to sell the last one I built) but I figured a good used Mini with a few modifications would be cheaper than building another $1200 AR and I'm broke. Please help, I am open to suggestions.
Heavy barrel for Ruger Mini-14
- Thread starter maconcop
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The only real scenario that I could see it becoming necessary would be a hostage taker or active shooter situation. Our SWAT team would respond however on my department SWAT is not a full time unit that would be on standby so a response time of at least 1.5 hours is expected before SWAT would be on scene and ready. Patrol officers, like myself, are always first on the scene. A lot can happen in 1.5 hours and a kill shot could be required. I doubt that the 100 yard distance would come into play in my urban setting except at one of our numerous schools or large business that have large parking areas. Pretty much everything else I could foresee would be 50 yards max. I don't necessarily expect that I would need to take the 100 yard head shot, however I don't ever want to be in the position of having to watch someone get killed because I didn't have the right equipment.
Hmmn...
How about any large city, suburb, or rural area going through the throes of major social upheaval (riots, looting, etc.)?
How about any LEO event involving a two-way engagement of armed felons where an exposed head is the only significant chunk of target?
In my experience, Macon, Georgia would support either paradigm nicely.
maconcop: I don't question the need, but I question both the weapon and a perceived need to modify it. With a magnifying optic, the Mini will do what needs to be done out to 100 yards (including a head shot). For 50-100 meter shots, the Mini-14 could get the job done with iron sights. Get a good zero at 100 and practice engaging the target that represents your worst case.
Any basic AR will do the same, but with better accuracy. For less money than required to gunsmith the Ruger into something that will deliver the mail, you could purchase just about any mid-grade M4gery that will do the same thing right off the rack. You don't actually need stainless, free floated, bull barrels to use a rifle for 100 yard shots. Any stock GI M16A1, A2, or M4 is perfectly capable of doing that shot with irons...assuming the shooter does his part. With a basic 4X scope it would become a much easier shot. I'm talking just using a basic Bushmaster, DPMS, S&W, etc.
If your heart is set on the Ruger (and there is a lot to like about that rifle), I'd not waste money on upgrading the Mini's barrel, but would recommend buying a quality scope instead.
If you really need precision accuracy at distances more than 150m, you are contemplating the wrong rifle.
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Chindo18Z, I agree completely. But whatever I get I will probably have a zero magnication holographic type optic maybe a 1.5X. I'm much more likely to see closer engagements, car to car or across a front/back yard. Anything 150yards out is pretty unlikely and if I've got that kind of distance I would think that I would have options. Beside's that's what the SWAT sniper's bolt rifle is for.
I've also been kicking around the idea of a 6.8SPC or building an FAL or G3 clone. Anyone used the Kel-Tec SU-16 rifles? If they're accurate and reliable they could certainly be an option.
I've also been kicking around the idea of a 6.8SPC or building an FAL or G3 clone. Anyone used the Kel-Tec SU-16 rifles? If they're accurate and reliable they could certainly be an option.
788Ham
Member
Save yourself the trouble of figuring anything else out, buy a Savage .308 bolt and get a good scope, then you're set. If you're planning on doing any shooting to hit inside a 3" circle, you'd best get one that will shoot MOA every shot. Make every shot count, make sure you can hit what you're shooting at.
I love the bolt guns. Plan to build a nice one some day with the Savage. However if some thug rolls out his car with an AK pointing at me from 20 yards or closer (a definite possibility where I work) I don't want to reply in kind with a bolt gun.
Jeff F
Member
The new Mini's have a heavier profiled barrel and are more accurate then the old skinny barreled Mini's. I think with the money your going to spend re-barreling an older Mini and getting it to where it shoots, you would be better off building an AR if you want accurate. Does your department not issue patrol rifles?
In my department only SWAT members are allowed to have rifles. By policy I can't have one at all in my car. There are a few still trying to get the chief to change that policy. Maybe one day. We just recently were allowed to supply ourselves with department approved shotguns. Still waiting on Tasers...
I also want to have the rifle at home. Unfortunately I actually live in an apartment in the city, so I want to be prepared.
I also want to have the rifle at home. Unfortunately I actually live in an apartment in the city, so I want to be prepared.
TexasPatriot.308
Member
Maconcop, the illegal mexicans have you outgunned!!!! your bosses need to wake up
Keltecs are a fine rifle. As a former owner, i'd advocate a C or CA variant for the heavier barrels and stabilization. I was able to do minute of torso using irons all day long to 100 yrds. Scope it and it will do you just fine at the ranges you're talking about with the accuracy you require. Nutnfancy has done a fare share of youtube reviewing for it. I personally don't like his blowhard review style, but you pick up a lot of info and get to see it in action plenty.
Better yet, it takes many AR attachments, clips and comes rails ready. Remove the integral bipod and swap it for an aftermarket forearm and you have even more options. The C even folds down to a knee high package and still retains the ability to fire, or smaller if you don't need it ready at moments notice. You'll have to squeeze the mini pretty hard for that sort of versatility. people complain about its light weight and plastic feel, but it's plenty tough.
Your biggest challenge will be finding one tho. Keltec's manufacturing sucks at the moment and the SUs C and CA are popular enough to be scarce items. Stay away from the A and B mods. The stick thin barrels aren't likely up for the duty you're considering them for.
Better yet, it takes many AR attachments, clips and comes rails ready. Remove the integral bipod and swap it for an aftermarket forearm and you have even more options. The C even folds down to a knee high package and still retains the ability to fire, or smaller if you don't need it ready at moments notice. You'll have to squeeze the mini pretty hard for that sort of versatility. people complain about its light weight and plastic feel, but it's plenty tough.
Your biggest challenge will be finding one tho. Keltec's manufacturing sucks at the moment and the SUs C and CA are popular enough to be scarce items. Stay away from the A and B mods. The stick thin barrels aren't likely up for the duty you're considering them for.
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I shot a heavy barreled mini before i bought my own mini, and was very impressed. It was a 3rd hand gun that was worked over by ASI, very nice. My own mini lands its rounds in about 1.5-2", with 69grn match bullets and handloads. Im prolly gonna see if i cant do some stuff to make it more accurate, but hey its good enough for now. Goats at 250-300 are pretty easy targets.
Panzercat: I was eyeballing the C and CA models. Kinda torn between the two. How uncomfortable is the C to shoot when folded? That could be a deciding factor. I don't want to sacrifice the mag storage for firing when folded if the firing when folded is impractical. I really want to get my hands on one before purchasing.
LoonWulf: thanks for the review on the Mini. I think I'll be focusing my search efforts on the Mini and the Kel-Tec
LoonWulf: thanks for the review on the Mini. I think I'll be focusing my search efforts on the Mini and the Kel-Tec
Standing unsupported, I wouldn't be taking headshots with a C folded down. It's comfortable enough and you'll be reasonably accurate, just the grip isn't the best for high precision work, though even that can be remedied in the aftermarket.
Using the bipod while folded, on the other hand, should be fine. Throw it on the hood of your patrol car and do what you need to. The integral bipod honestly needs rubber feet or something to be really stable and the spring loaded swivel allows for some playat the top. Some people can deal, some can't. Either way, ripping the bipod off and installing an aftermarket forearm +bipod is a popular option. Gives the rifle a more professional look too.
The KTOG forums are an invaluable resource. I linked the picture thread so you can get a good idea of all the aftermarket possibilities available.
No way for headshots folded. I was thinking more of keeping if folded while in the car, firing folded if I had to bail quickly or possibly building clearing. I could add rubber pads or change forends. Thanks for the reference. I'll check it out
Oh, bailing from a car and punching out rounds you'll be fine. It's imminently shootable folded down, not just a gimmick. In fact it's great for confined spaces... With a full 30 round mag as you can see above.
Availability will be your biggest issue. Hopefully you have connections as a LEO.
Availability will be your biggest issue. Hopefully you have connections as a LEO.
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merlinfire
Member
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Think of zee children! Zee folding stocks keeelz them!
Seriously though, starting off asking "can i haz headshots at 100 yards at zombies?" is not terribly productive. That being said, just about an semi-auto intermediate cartridge rifle will work for you: and you don't need a heavy barrel.
how many "head shots" are you expecting to need to take.......hes a police officer in GA, not a sniper in Kandahar.
also, why "head shots".....wouldnt it make much more sense to aim for COM....aiming for a small target, at range, under stress.......doesnt seem like the brightest idea.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
This thread is getting stranger & stranger.
First, you want a patrol rifle capable of making head shots at 100 yards.
Then you say your department doesn't allow you to carry one in your patrol car, or even use one anyway.
So, are you trying to get fired from the PD you work for, lose your LEO accreditation to work for another department, and also get thrown in the slammer for an unauthorized shooting.
Or what?
rc
Jeff F
Member
Me's thinking the same thing.
No I'm not trying to get fired or imprisoned. The department has been making several policy changes recently and this is one that we are petitioning the chief for. Plus if I get on SWAT on the next tryout then I can have a rifle. I also mentioned that I want to have it for the home; I live in an urban setting and have worked through a natural disaster. Believe it or not looters pillage and my family will not be soft targets. No, headshots at distance under stress is not plan A. However watching a a barricaded person or a person at 75 yards kill people and being unable to engage because I'm only armed with a 45GAP is not a thought that I particularly relish. I think I've gotten all the use I can from this thread. You guys have fun with it. See you on another thread.
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