Heinlein a gun guy?

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If you read "Grumbles From the Grave", the collection of his correspondence with various publishers. There is a group of letters regarding his annoyance and even anger with a publisher who wanted him to change aspects of "Red Planet" in regards to gun ownership. The editor was against it and RAH was damned if he would change his book to suit her prejudices. For perspective, "Red Planet" was written in 1949.

RAH was not so much a gun guy as an individualist to the nth degree.

Sincerely,

Prof. A. Wickwire
 
Thompson Auto Ordanance 1911
I wonder if that pistol was around when Heinlein wrote the book .....

Probably not, but he was writing about the FUTURE!

:D:D:D

Bruce
 
Heinlein was one of my favourite authors when I was a kid, Citizen of the Galaxy, Space Family Stone, etc, I read and reread as a 13 year old. As a young teenager he expanded my horizons well past the walls of my school and the roads of my suburb.
When I was 18 I registered to vote, went on my first pro gun protest march and applied for my firearms license, all in pretty much the one week. I've still got the gun lobby cap, twenty years later.

I guess he was a useful influence.
 
FWIW Mr. Heinlien was an Annapolis graduate and excelled in fencing. His early viewpoints -as excpressed in many stories and novellas - are what would now be called "conservative". Looked at as a whole - in light of current definitions - the "Dean of American Science Fiction Writers" was more libertarian than conservative; as his often expressed views on sexual mores, social interactions and class/caste distinctions reveal. >MW
 
By the way, are there any online repositories of Heinlein stuff? I like reading it, but my local library is slim pickings.

To stay on topic, he strikes me as a supporter.
 
I don't know of any free places, but there are a number of websites that let you buy online books and read them on your computer w/programs from those same sites. I use Ereader myself, they have a few of his books(ereader.com)
 
Another gun guy was H. Beam Piper, a fellow Pennsylvanian. His "The Weapon Shops of Isher" is a pro-gun classic, with the motto "The right to buy arms is the right to be free."

Note "buy", the essential difference between the classic militia concept of issued weapons and the right to own (not just keep or bear) arms.

Jim
 
RAH owned a Remington model 51 .380 pistol.

Most of his writing indicates he shared many of the firearm opinions of his contemporaries. He would have gotten along well with my next door neighbor, for instance. Both liked the M1, for instance, though both also liked smaller caliber pistols.
 
I have read most of RAHs books, and what stands out to me most is the use of blades over guns. Not to say that he doesnt reference gun usage, but blades seem to be the weapon of choice in most of his books - Podkayne of Mars, Orphans in the Sky, Citizen of the Galaxy, Farmer in the Sky, I forget the name of the one where its survival school on a random planet (Tunnel in the Sky?). A few of his books deal more with guns as weapons but they tend to be the ones about warfare like Starship Troopers, Moon is a Harsh Mistress and Fifth Column (or whatever it was renamed when it was rereleased).
 
I think that insttead of being a gun guy he is a person who believes in people being responsible for their own self and not relying on others or government to do for them. Being able to defend your self is a part of this.
 
Like most people his political views changed over his long life. I would say they ran from National Socialist to Libertarian.

You'd be wrong.

I always felt that he was more of a Fascist, or probably something like an 18th Century 'Enlightened Despot'.

As would you.

Any truly serious Heinlein student would dismiss both of those views at first glance. Heinlein was very deeply disturbed by both national socialism specifically, and totalitarianism in general. He was an elitist, clearly, but not in the way that some elitists think that they should run everything as a dictator. Also, please understand, several of the fictional governments/social systems that he wrote about were never intended to put on a pedestal as an ideal way to run a country/world (with the possible exception of the Twain-inspired gondor-analogue from Starship Troopers). If you doubt this, read Grumbles From the Grave, or the new biography that's just come out. It's quite clear. He was pro-military, and vehemently anti-communist, both to extremes. This is where some people get the idea that he was "fascist", but if you simply look up the word itself, you will see how absurd that comparison is. For a more detailed rebuttal of this, see Spider Robinson's essays.

As for Heinlein being a gun guy, he was an expert marksman. We have evidence that he shot a stray cat that was attacking his family pet. First shot hit dead on, after several years of not shooting (lack of shooting practice most likely due to his poor health). He also taught marksmanship at some point, if memory serves, though that i'd have to consult my notes to confirm.

Heinlein was definitely "one of us". He liked just about ALL personal weapons, to my knowledge. He also studied unarmed fighting, and his wife Ginny was a Judo expert. He fenced competitively, and not with the flimsy little blades we modern fencers use. The sabre in that day was an honest weapon, though it did lack an edge. The guy was the original "survivalist" (not a dirty word in my world), or would have been, had his health been a bit better. He also wrote MANY books and short stories that referenced firearms, not just the ones involving mass combat. If anything, there are probably more firearms of various sorts in his canon (pun intended) than blades. In one case, there was even a gun/sword cane. I'd also be willing to bet that he owned more than just one .380 pistol. That one we know about because he used it to kill a cat, and he wrote his editor about it. He undoubtedly kept more hidden away. The man built his own concrete bomb shelter for heaven's sake.
 
My favorite Heinlein gun thing is in Beyond This Horizon. This future world was pretty much built around the concept of an armed society being a polite society. The main character carries a 1911, copied from one in museum, though folks of this time normally carry a (relatively silent) beam weapon. The thunderous noise of the .45 startles an adversary so much that they don't even fire their laser gun if he gets off the first shot.
 
And a short story too...

I don't remember the title, 'cause I first read it over 45 years ago, and the book is long lost, but Heinlein wrote a short story / novella about an accidental time traveller who is yanked into the future to find himself in a gun store selling "the finest energy weapons in the known universe", where they are under siege from the evil forces of "the empress" who wants to put them out of business and so consolidate her power forever.

The gun shop had a motto in the window that went something like, "The right to own guns is the right to remain free."



edit: just remembered (I think) - the title of the story was "SeeSaw". Find a copy and read it to understand.
 
Springmom-
This was one of H. Beam Piper's stories. Someone else mentioned him in this thread before. He wrote some great stuff too.
 
Surprised no one's mentioned "The Number of the Beast." Jake and Zeb strike down a goblin using swords, Jake's an expert with a .45, Deety with a shotgun. All of them seem to carry some sort of concealed weapon, laws be damned.

"Glory Road" also waxes poetic over a bow, as I recall.

Ed
 
Also in Rocket Ship Galileo he has his characters buying guns for defense and wishing they could afford a Garand. Come to think of it his characters use them on the moon too which is a topic that has been discussed numerous times here on THR.
 
Another gun guy was H. Beam Piper, a fellow Pennsylvanian. His "The Weapon Shops of Isher" is a pro-gun classic, with the motto "The right to buy arms is the right to be free."



I don't remember the title, 'cause I first read it over 45 years ago, and the book is long lost, but Heinlein wrote a short story / novella about an accidental time traveller who is yanked into the future to find himself in a gun store selling "the finest energy weapons in the known universe", where they are under siege from the evil forces of "the empress" who wants to put them out of business and so consolidate her power forever.

The gun shop had a motto in the window that went something like, "The right to own guns is the right to remain free."


That was:

The Weapon Shops of Isher
and
The Weapon Makers
by A E van Vogt

Review at Amazon:

In "The Weapon Shops of Isher", AE van Vogt deals with libertarian philosophy that is best summarized by the slogan he attributes to the weapon shops, "The right to buy weapons is the right to be free". Unlike what many potential readers might imagine, this is not a manifesto for the National Rifle Association. It's a much more soft pedalled carefully considered cautionary tale that is a warning to citizens to be sure they retain the ability to limit the potential power of any government regardless of the form it might take.
 
Many apologies springmom and thanks to BCP for setting it straight. A.e.van Vogt was indeed the author.
 
Blades or Guns

In Glory Road - Heinlein wrote:

"...and found there the blade that suited me the way Excalibur suited Arthur.
I've never seen one quite like it, so I don't know what to call it. A saber, I suppose, as the blade was faintly curved and razor sharp on the edge and sharp rather far on the back. But it had a point as deadly as a rapier and the curve was not enough to keep it from being used for thrust and counter quite as well as chopping away meat-axe style. The guard was a bell curved back around the knuckles into a semi-basket but cut away enough to permit full moulinet from any guard.
It balanced in the forte less than two inches from the guard, yet the blade was heavy enough to chop bone. It was the sort of sword that feels like an extension of your body.
The grip was honest sharkskin, molded to my hand. There was a motto chased on to the blade but it was so buried in curlicues that I did not take time to study it out. This girl was mine, we fitted! I returned it and buckled belt and scabbard to my bare waist, wanting the touch of it and feeling like Captain John Carter, and the Gascon and his three friends all in one."

"I drew my sword and glanced along it, feeling its exquisite balance while noting again the faint ripples left by the feather-soft hammerblows of some master swordsmith. I tossed it and caught it by the forte. "Read the motto, Star."
She traced it out. "Dum vivimus, vivamus! -- 'While we live, let us live!' "

This is a man that respects the gun but LOVES the blade. I love my historical firearms and my AR15 and other semi auto's, but there is somethingi about the feel of a blade. Yet people are afraid of them, driving 80 miles and hour in a tin can, but being hesitant to hold a sharpened instrument in their hand.
 
With regard to Heinlein's elitist beliefs, he took a very interesting approach. I believed that you can breed people to be better genetically, and that those who don't are not "inferior", they are just not taking advantage of their full potential. Proof for this is from his entire "Lazarus Long" set of books... As well as the main character from "Time enough for love" (I forget his name).. who was part of a breeding program to increase the lifespan of humanity. It does have undertones that are reminiscent of Nietzsche and the Eugenics movement, but without the blatant racism and discrimination.

He believed in individualism to an extreme.... But while he believed that every person should have all the skills needed, that community and society are good things, so long as they don't interfere with a persons right to choose.
 
Heinlein went a touch of the deep end when Lazarus Long started to time travel back to the past to have sex with his mother and cloned himself into female twins and then had a threesome. Oh, well.

Hamilton Felix's society was a genetic tyranny and folks not up to right genome were discriminated against. Women were not particularly given equal rights. Felix's girl friend and then wife was a rarity that went armed and was an experimental genotype. That armed society was not a paradise. Of course, it's not clear RAH wanted that society but was experimenting in discussing its characterisitcs.

The 1911 was cute though, it demonstrated Felix's retro personality.

It's sad that they made such a crappy movie out of Starship Troopers.
 
The guys who did Starship Troopers later admitted they didn't even open the book to see what it was about.

H. Beam Piper wrote Little Fuzzy and was very pro gun. In the story the main character uses a 12.7 mm bolt action rifle standing freehand to shoot a nasty critter known as a Brush Goblin.
 
RE Number of the Beast, there was also a .38 snubbie in their arsenal (which capt. Carter pours his own bullets for...a man after my own heart), and mention of TWO 30-06 bolt guns.

RE Rocket Ship Galileo, they DID buy Garands, but couldn't afford a sporting rifle with a nice scope. If you're going to reference the guns in the books, please get them right...
 
I loved the Fuzzy books and Piper's Space Vikings and Gun Powder gods. The latter was very concerned with firearms plot lines.

In Space Vikings, the protagonists who raided planets were reticient to go to one where the inhabitants were known to be fanatic about their marksmanship with scoped rifles. In the Gun Powder series, IIRC - an Pennsylvania state trooper gets bopped into an alternate North America settled by Aryans (not nazis) who came over the land bridge. A priesthood developed that controlled gun powder production and our hero fought against it as he knew how to make black powder.
 
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