Heller as viewed by my best friend (a Defense Attorney and Poli Sci pr

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longstanding prohibitions which prevent convicted felons, or the mentally ill from owning firearms is permissible

Good article, but I take exception to the above characterization. Forty years may seem like "longstanding" to a youngster, but it's relatively recent in our 232 year history as a nation.

I've heard that some western states used to have laws that they had to provide a man released from prison with "a horse and a gun." ;)
 
In regards to the camel's nose in the tent, a.k.a., the Form 4473, I'll make the point that although the existance of a Form 4473 with my name on it does not prove that I currently own that firearm, I would bet that such proof of my one-time involvment with firearms would be considered probable-cause to gain a search warrant from a friendly judge to search my house to see if I have firearms that are not listed on government forms. The dreaded unregistered firearm. [/sarcasm]

If one Form 4473 is not considered enough evidence for an actual physical search of my property, I'm sure it is enough to allow a thorough investigation of my spending habits over the last 10 years. Add the one 4473 to my credit card statements that show what I have purchased from various gun-related businesses, and even the most strict court would grant a physical search of my property in anticipation of finding unregistered firearms.

In short, the Form 4473 makes finding gun owners, gun enthusiasts, or gun interested people, much easier. It takes a lot of the hay off of the haystack.
 
What if everyone filed a 4473?

It is not necessary to buy a gun when filing a 4473. One could ostensibly want to buy, file the 4473 then not buy. This puts the 4473 in another pile and may muddy the water. My question is, here in Illinois, we must obtain a state issued Firearm Owner I.D. card, prior to filing a 4473. This is gun owner registration, should it count as license? Why should I as a "registered" gun owner be required to submit to the required "cooling" off period (24 hours for long guns, 48 for handguns). If I were caught up in a rage or passion to do harm why don't my existing guns suffice? Hopefully these and other stupid, requirements will be challenged and voided in the future.:banghead:
 
I've heard that some western states used to have laws that they had to provide a man released from prison with "a horse and a gun."

Depending on the offense, some still allow for possession of long guns after they're off paper although it doesn't mean squat in the fedpukes eyes.
 
The Japanese qte;

"I am afraid we have awakened a sleeping Tiger" was a statement made by a Harvard educated Japanese Admiral. Mind you that is from memory! And not a good one.
 
The part that talks about "militia" is what he calls a "prefatory clause", a phrase used only to clarify or justify the important part of the statement, the "operative clause". The operative clause here is, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

I think the reason this is one of my favorite parts is because we've said the SAME EXACT THING on this board.
 
Old Guy, that was from Yamamoto, I believe, and it was "All we have done is awaken a sleeping giant." This in referance to the Pearl harbor attack.
Also, as I stated before, when I worked for an FFL, the law was changed to destroy any 4473s held for 25.01 years, NOT to turn them over to anyone. It USED to be forever, not anymore, unless they changed it again after I got out of the business, 7 years ago.
 
ronaldbeal excuses Roth's "sloppy scholarship" with
"sloppy scholarship"?!?!....

I believe Mr. Roth is a scholar of law, and not WWII history.

It is a phony excuse since scholarship in writing is the same -- document your sources. If you quote from history or law or science, you reference where you obtained your material.

The problem with this quote and other modern myths are that their sources are never given. So, in the article What The Great Minds Have Said About Gun Control, Dave Gibson, July 14, 2008, we see the myth in another form attributed to Japanese leader Tojo late in the war:
Near the end of World War II, the Japanese leader Tojo once said that the reason Japan never invaded the mainland of the United States was because "there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."
 
Thank you for posting AND thank your Jewish lawyer friend for us.

Some (all?) Jews suscribe to the following-- "NEVER AGAIN"

Never again will they be disarmed and end up in the gas chamber.

My question is -- Why do so many Jewish members of the US Congress NOT subscribe to that idea?? Many Jewish Senators are the most rabid anti @a to be found. What happened?? OR is this a case of 'horrah for us-to hexx with you'?
 
I agree that licensing was not technically addressed, but the author does make a good point that it was given deference (i.e. it was pronounced as a relief to the complaint). They did not say is was relief from the infringement and after incorporation, that's probably the next thing we need to work on.

I want a machinegun too, but let's do first things first.

Reid
 
I think the court missed one major point....you can't tax a right. The NFA is a tax on certain weapons. You cannot place a larger sales tax on political books over the average fiction novel. You cannot tax someone who wants to practice a religion other than "common" one. You cannot tax people wish to decline a search.
Now now now. One argument at a time. The secret to getting the camel into the tent is to start with the nose, as was already mentioned (going the other way, alas). Besides, NFA items and taxation were not on the agenda. To bring them up directly would not only have been irrelevant to Heller's plight, but may well have sent the swing vote the other way.

The taxation angle is a sound logical argument, but whether or not it holds water legally is another question. The groundwork for it, however, has been laid. The more you read Heller the more you realize how much of a sea-change this is going to be if we keep the same makeup of the court for a few more cases.
I do have one nit to pick with the article quoted by the OP. To wit:
The weakness in the decision, specifically, is that there is great deference shown to "licensing", which is treated as an acceptable accommodation to the right, for the District of Columbia.
The decision creates the same problem in this area as did MILLER The decision actually says:
Because Heller conceded at oral argument that the D. C. licensing law is permissible if it is not enforced arbitrarily and capriciously, the Court assumes that a license will satisfy his prayer for relief and does not address the licensing requirement.
Not addressing a question which was not presented before the court does not say that an action is permissible. Note that Scalia goes on to say:
...since this case represents this Court’s first in-depth examination of the Second Amendment, one should not expect it to clarify the entire field, any more than Reynolds v. United States, 98 U. S. 145 (1879), our first in-depth Free Exercise Clause case, left that area in a state of utter certainty. And there will be time enough to expound upon the historical justifications for the exceptions we have mentioned if and when those exceptions come before us.
What I get out of that passage of the decision is Scalia is saying, loudly and plainly for everyone in the cheap seats (and for Circuit Courts inclined to engage in outcome-based jurisprudence *cough*9th*cough), that since Heller is requesting a license, the idea of licensing passing constitutional muster is completely moot. It's not a topic that is being discussed. The mere fact that Mr. Heller is satisfied with a non-arbitrary, non-capricious licensing scheme does not mean that future petitioners will be so satisfied. What is interesting is that Scalia does two things by saying this:

1. He begs the question: Does licensing pass Constitutional muster? Guess you'll have to file suit and find out. :)

2. He also gives a pretty solid fallback position: the Court is satisfied by a non-arbitrary, non-capricious licensing scheme, and by logical extension they would NOT be satisfied by an arbitrary and capricious one. Can we say "May Issue ain't gonna cut it"?

Mike
 
"it is not the role of this court to pronounce the Second Amendment extinct", it will unfortunately require ongoing activism and vigilance to make sure another government body does not make it moot.

Very true. We cannot allow this decision to bring our guard down. It was a very narrow victory. Who knows, several years from now when similar issues are on the table, it may go 4/5 against the constitution. The socialist agenda is still strong in this country, and they are seething over this decision. It is only a matter of time until they regroup and attack our rights again.
Great posting... reminds us to not become arrogant over this "photo finish".
 
Coronach said:
2. He also gives a pretty solid fallback position: the Court is satisfied by a non-arbitrary, non-capricious licensing scheme, and by logical extension they would NOT be satisfied by an arbitrary and capricious one. Can we say "May Issue ain't gonna cut it"?

I've heard from two attorneys (online, via non-gun-related web forums, so they might not even really be lawyers but who knows) who both said that 'not "arbitrary or capricious"' as legal terminology is the weakest of all standards, it is in effect weaker than "reasonable scrutiny". And as such, the vast majority of "may issue" would survive that, with the possible exception of "only the mayor's brother" and such. Needless to say, I'd be grateful for some informed opinions here on that.
 
Great artical...

My only question is does the Constitution to those of us who live in California?
 
does the Constitution to those of us who live in California?

That depends on to whom you address the question. Ask anyone in a position of power in California, and the asnwer is "Yes," even while their actions say "No."

"Know them by what they do..."

Pops
 
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