Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Heller didn't win his case.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by GigaBuist, Jun 29, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. GigaBuist

    GigaBuist Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2003
    Messages:
    2,261
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    I've been seeing comments about "Heller" winning "his" case lately and that bothers me. I tried clearing it up in one thread, but that buried itself pretty early. I another thread I made a rather snarky comment to another member and annotated it admitting I was at fault there and shouldn't be doing that.

    You see, the "Heller" case wasn't always "Heller." When the 2nd District Court heard it it was "Parker" and before that there were four other plaintiffs.

    The whole case was the brain child of Robert Levy. Mr. Heller did not stand up one day and challenge DC's handgun ban. Levy dreamt up the case and he "shopped" for people that would have standing.

    He eventually decided on 6 people without any "baggage" -- ie: criminal record, and people that represented different walks of life. Also, obviously, they had to have an interest in striking down the law.

    I'm not sure of the particulars or the who's-who of the original plaintiffs but Levy wanted a mix of people from different races and economic means. That means a black guy, a black woman, a white guy with money, a white guy without much money, etc. Levy was covering every angle. Mr. Heller simply filled a slot and he happened to be the one granted standing in the Supreme Court case because his permit to keep a pistol was actually denied.

    I have no idea if the other plaintiffs even applied for one, if they were denied, or if their applications were simply never answered.

    Again: Heller did not win his case.

    A lawyer, Robert Levy, God bless him, won his case by carefully constructing it and executing it well.

    Mr Heller helped out, and I appreciate that, but, for lack of a better word, he was simply a pawn.

    I do not mean to denigrate Mr. Heller at all. Far from it. I just wish to call to attention WHY and HOW this case succeeded along with WHO really made it happen.

    These are importing things to understand when trying to bring further court cases to extend the right to keep and bear arms.
     
  2. Solo Flyer

    Solo Flyer member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    Messages:
    581
    Heller,Levy,Gura,whoever ,the case was won.
    That is the only thing that matters.
    Everything else is simply trivia.
     
  3. Funderb

    Funderb Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    Messages:
    2,104
    Location:
    Jacksonville, Bold new city of the south.
    The case title is still heller vs DC,

    so, Its nice to recognize the people behind the scene,
    but things are nominal because they are, not because it's true.

    just like a 2x4 is not a 2x4, no one wants to call it a 1.5x3.5 or a 1.75x3.75 depending on the supplier.
    It's still going to be Heller v DC and thats the way it is.

    Just be glad it was ruled the way it was. Baby steps.
     
  4. Big45

    Big45 member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Messages:
    619
    Location:
    behind enemy lines...NO MORE. Made it to Free Ari
    Thanks for clearing that up.
     
  5. John828

    John828 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,089
    Location:
    Arkansas
    "GigaBuist," you must be an attorney. I respect your field. Thank you for you assistance in keeping society within its stated realms.
     
  6. justin 561

    justin 561 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Royal palm beach, Florida
    Took the words right out of my mouth.
     
  7. heritageguy

    heritageguy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Messages:
    59
    Location:
    Virginia
    Whatever! :rolleyes:
     
  8. musher

    musher Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    586
    Location:
    Fairbanks, AK
    DC v Heller actually
     
  9. sailortoo

    sailortoo Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    264
    Location:
    NW New Mexico
    My - so many nits to pick - so little time! It will go down in history as "D.C. v Heller", no matter who pulled the strings, nor how many lawyers sent out humungous (or not) billing. As the dust settles, so to speak, the really important aspects of the ruling will become the center focus - and I'm really looking forward to it. :)
    sailortoo
     
  10. fjolnirsson

    fjolnirsson Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,746
    Location:
    Oregon, in the Willamette Valley
    This is the important bit. It would be wise for us to pay attention here.
    Giga isn't an attorney (at least I've never heard him mention it. If I recall correctly, he works in computers), but he does have a knack, in my experience, for seeing and predicting results rather correctly, as well as seeing to the heart of things.

    In order to capitalize on Heller, we must know WHY we won. We won because a very intelligent attorney crafted an excellent case on purpose. Future wins can not be allowed to happen by accident, if we want to continue to have our rights acknowledged in increasing amounts.
     
  11. Remander

    Remander Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    447
    I think I read that some of the other plaintiffs were tossed for standing reasons.

    You are right that the lawyers who planned the case chose a variety of plaintiffs (so that they had all the bases covered). Good job, lawyers!

    The name of the case is now and forever District of Columbia v. Heller. See District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. ___ (2008)

    It started out as Parker v. District of Columbia (Parker filed the suit), but Heller won at the lower levels. The Supreme Court renames cases with the petitioner's (loser's) name listed first.

    Again: GOOD JOB, LAWYERS!!!

    The NRA is boasting of the win (and filing suits based on the precedent), but if you read up on it you will find that they were late to the party, and even fought the case getting going. I'm a member, but I've got to call a spade ...
     
  12. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    14,613
    Location:
    Texas
    The other plaintiffs were unable to even apply for a license because they had to legally own a firearm and be D.C. residents before they could ask for the permit; but if they owned a firearm without a permit, they were already in violation of the law.

    IIRC, Heller was able to beat the Catch-22 because he legally owned the firearm for his security job - so he could apply for a permit to keep it at home after work.
     
  13. Hunter0924

    Hunter0924 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Messages:
    715
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Let's be thankful we won and not quibble so much on the details.
    I am sure strategy played a big part in the victory.
     
  14. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2005
    Messages:
    11,450
    Location:
    TN
    Cases of this nature usually don't just happen. They are selected and financed to achieve a certain results and court precedent. I have no idea what this case cost if Mr. Heller was actually paying the attorney's, but it would be astronomical.
     
  15. everallm

    everallm Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,504
    At the point of this is ?

    It makes no difference to the case, the outcome or the basis upon which it was raised.
     
  16. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2005
    Messages:
    11,450
    Location:
    TN
    The point is that a case was selected that ran through the court system all the way to the US Supreme Court. I'm glad the Supreme Coutr selected it as the decision cements the individual right interpretation of the Constitution which was long overdue. Choosing this case was important as the outcome went directly to the Second Amendment.

    Why is that?
     
  17. Rosstradamus

    Rosstradamus Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    Big D
    +1
     
  18. Dravur

    Dravur Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,742
    Location:
    Longmont, CO
    Sheesh...

    Ok, so it was Levy, but the case was named Heller....

    Plus... Whoever heard of..
    Levy Kitty instead of Heller Kitty...

    Heller high water vs Levy or High Water.

    It was a Heller of a case vs It was a Levy of a case...

    See, Heller is just a ton more fun. Many more puns to explore... Levy just does not lend itself to puns...

    but give it a crack.

    I aint gonna Levy my gun rights at the Supreme Court..

    See, not nearly as elegant.
     
  19. tepin

    tepin Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    562
    Location:
    AZ
    I dont get-it. What is the point?
     
  20. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    48,576
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    The point is that we need to remember that legal challenges are won by the attorneys and not by the people the case is named after. In this case it went far beyond an attorney representing a client. Mr. Levy developed the strategy, applied good legal tactics, selected the complainant's (of which Mr. Heller was only one) and due to his skill and determination all American benefited. Mr. Levy and his team did the work.
     
  21. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    9,689
    Location:
    Forestburg, Texas
    Okay GigaBuist, you are making a semantic point. Semantics can be critical when it comes to clarifications or distinctions in understanding.

    Just how does your semantic issue help with clarification or understanding of the case in question?

    If you wanted to be technical, Levy didn't win the case either. There was considerable effort involved with several legal teams.
     
  22. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,797
    And so......were supposed to hate Heller for the "unjustified fame he's getting?


    Forever in history, the most important 2nd Amendment case says, "D.C. v. Heller", not D.C. v. Gura or D.C. v. Levy.


    Heller is forever named in making the 2nd Amendment an Individual right.
     
  23. Starship1st

    Starship1st Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    654
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    We the people won and there are many people involved that worked on this case. I am not going to deminish Heller's standing in history. :cool:
     
  24. Funderb

    Funderb Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    Messages:
    2,104
    Location:
    Jacksonville, Bold new city of the south.
    DC v heller, my bad!
     
  25. The Annoyed Man

    The Annoyed Man Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Messages:
    596
    Location:
    Grapevine, Texas
    I generally hate puns, but that there is funny, I don't care who you are. :D
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page