Help a newbie (LRs, ARs, and arrghs!)

[heavydluxe]

Hi all.

New to shooting sports in general, and trying to make a decision on our first rifle purchase. Of special consideration are two of my kids who've jumped into shooting with me - my 6 y/o daughter and 10 y/o son. My son has been attending jr. marksman club at a local shooting range and progressing up the Winchester/NRA qualifications (working on the Sharpshooter bars now).

Long term, son and I are interested in precision target shooting, beginning with smallbore now and hopefully moving up to high-power stuff eventually.

So, my challenge: Admitting that I'm on a budget, what do I buy?

I'd like to start with a .22LR that son and I could both use 'competitively' to get started. The trick is figuring out how to modify the stock so that he and I could shoot the same gun. He's loving the marksmanship qualifications, so I'd like the gun to fit him well. But there's no room in the budget to justify buying more than one, semi-decent .22 at this point.

At one point, I considered something like the S&W MP15-22 since the AR form-factor would seem to allow some easy adjustability. The pistol grip would even possibly allow my daughter to enjoy the gun (has trouble gripping stock and extending trigger finger far enough to squeeze). I was just about sold until I started reading a rash of reports that the MP15-22s were notoriously inaccurate while still being notoriously fun.

Then I thought about spending more to get a 'better', true AR with a .22 upper. That way, later on, we could just buy a .223 or .308 upper for other competitive shooting. I'm not sure this is the wisest move, and the number of AR-vendors is *staggering*. So, I'm not even sure where to begin. If I thought I was making the right move here, I could justify the increased outlay of cash.

The final alternative, I suppose, is to buy a Savage or something like a Ruger 10/22 and try to come up with a solution to making the stock 'adjustable' for more than one person.

I just came across this forum today, and I've already learned a lot. My hope is that some of you may chime in with some comments that point me in the right direction or, at the very list, make my hemming and hawing more productive!

Thanks in advance for helping me, telling me I'm an idiot, and/or any other feedback you have.

- Dluxe

 

[Zerodefect]

I can't help with bolt action precision rifles. I never had much luck with those, especially setting one up for multiple people.

As for Ar's any good precision upper will do. BCM Mk12 SPR is a good start. I've also had good luck with Larues uppers and especially thier scope mounts.

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=100
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=35014

A Magpul UBR stock is very adjustable for different shooters and works great for precision oriented rifles, while the cheaper ACS is better for carbines.

Need a complete 5.56 rifle instead:
http://larueosr.com/lt556-16.aspx

I don't think anyone is going to beat the Larue OBR anytime soon. It really is a great AR for precision that will live up to it's accuracy claims. But I'd recommend asking them to swap the CTS stock for the UBR, unfortuneatly the UBR is more expensive. I prefere the Stealth uppers for defensive use as I like more rails and Magpul rail covers for grips, but the OBR's are hands down better range guns.

 

[Screamin'Eagle]

If you wanted an adjustable stock, you could go with a Ruger 10/22 and put an Archangel stock or similar on it that uses the 6 position AR buttstock.

EDIT: ATI also makes a stock for the 10/22 with a 6 position AR style buttstock.

Both are available through CTD, or probably your LGS.

The 10/22 has so many accessory options and upgrades that you could improve your gun as you go along.

 

[dmazur]

a .223 or .308 upper for other competitive shooting

I know only a little about AR-15's, but I believe the first is possible and the second is not possible.

The AR-15 pattern is available by several manufacturers in .308, but the lower is a different part. These resemble the Armalite AR-10 in general size, but do not have interchangeable parts between manufacturers as is common with the AR-15's. DPMS and Armalite are two .308's that I'm aware of, and there may be more.

There are all sorts of uppers available for the AR-15, as I'm sure you are aware. These range from the 6.8 SPC to .50 Beowolf. I believe magazines for these all fit in the AR-15 lower. While these offer tremendous utility, I believe only the .223 is acceptable for some competition.

 

[bbuddtec]

Your options indicate a bigger budget...

I'm thinking the Ruger 10/22 to start, it's not bolt tho, but it has huge aftermarket options for as you go.

The AR .22 cal will start doubling your budget right off, as the Ruger is much cheaper.

I love AR, for sure, and for fitting all the bills, I'd go with that, but I'm prejudiced

you WILL NOT be able to upgrade the x15 lower with a .308 upper, but you will have

trained yourself well for an AR 10 platform in the future.

Overall, if accuracy is the main goal, stick with tweaking the 10/22 to your liking, 'til you

develop a taste for something different, or graduate to highpower. My2bits

 

[Skyshot]

If you look around, you could probably get two (used) 10/22's for the price of one S&W MP 22, You could build one for you and one for the kids. Used 10/22's are common and usually cheap. Aftermarket parts are abundant.

 

[Wonder9]

First of all, welcome to the forum and kudos to you for getting your kids involved in shooting. You'll find or found they need little encouragement to go out and shoot!
There's lotsa choices out there some better than others but the Ruger 10/22 will always be a good choice. I'll just reiterate earlier posts ....it's infinitely changeable with the copious amount of aftermarket parts, cheap to shoot and it can grow with you and your abilities. I wish I had never sold my first one 20 years ago. It's my son's "go to" gun.

 

[heavydluxe]

Thanks all...

So many choices, so little time.

Thank you all for the posts!

 

[Dreamcast270mhz]

After you get a .22lr and want to move up to ~ .30 cal, get a mil-surp mosin nagant (about $100 at gun shows) ammo is $.10 a round, just clean using windex with the jag after shooting. Great budget gun, but heavy and long, and bad recoil so only when your son is accustomed to heavier recoil.

 

[chris in va]

I'll get flamed for this, but honestly...a regular plain jane AR-15 has very little recoil and just about any kid will have a massive grin after shooting one. 22's are fine too, but just thought I'd point that out.

 

[Dreamcast270mhz]

I'll get flamed for this, but honestly...a regular plain jane AR-15 has very little recoil and just about any kid will have a massive grin after shooting one. 22's are fine too, but just thought I'd point that out.

So does a mini 14. I like the mini 14 better, my ranch is more accurate than the AR15s at my range haha the looks on their faces.

 

[heavydluxe]

Thanks, Chris...

... The issue for me there is cost. I'm not in a position to invest in reloading right now, so the ammo cost and start-up price of an AR in .223/5.56 is just not in the cards right now.

Maybe next year, as they say.

 

[Gordon_Freeman]

Since you seem to be interested in AR15s, the S&W 15-22 would be perfect. This rifle did get "Rifle of the year" last year for a reason.

I find ruger 10/22s to be boring, and you can never get it to function like a true AR15 no matter what you do to it.